Should fansubbers focus on Pre-Zyuranger era?

K

kamil88

Guest
It seems like Shout Factory is going to release all past Zyuranger Super Sentai, i know fansubbers have right to choose whatever hey sub, but..wouldn't it better to stick to pre0Zyu era? As after Sentai get licensed, fansub get removed to not damage sales)
 
subs can do whatever sentai they want, so I would not be a good idea to only sub pre zyu. Sentai is a niche thing in the US, why make it so that the subs online are gone because shout factory wants to boost sales? Im sorry, but I dont wanna spend about $40 on a dvd series that i'll probably end up watching once then not watching again til long in the future. Also doing that will hurt the viewers in the end. Think about it, why pay money to watch a sentai on dvd when its online for free?
 

raden238

Active Member
Yeah about that, does Shout Factory demand fan subbers to take the videos or do the subbers do it on there own out of kindness to help them with sales?


subs can do whatever sentai they want, so I would not be a good idea to only sub pre zyu. Sentai is a niche thing in the US, why make it so that the subs online are gone because shout factory wants to boost sales? Im sorry, but I dont wanna spend about $40 on a dvd series that i'll probably end up watching once then not watching again til long in the future. Also doing that will hurt the viewers in the end. Think about it, why pay money to watch a sentai on dvd when its online for free?

I agree, it seems kind of pointless to taken down the videos when they're been on online for so many years and plenty of people have watched them already. Shout Factory should sub all the Sentais from the 70s and 80s like Gorenger and Goggle-V. They should do the ones that people have never seen before, that will surely get sales. But doing Kakuranger right after the fans subs were complete is pointless. I don't see them subbing all the Sentai from Ohranger - onward either. Its gonna end somewhere.
 

Fox-Chan

Harumph.
It'd be silly to drop every single post-Zyuranger series because Shout Factory may release it somewhere down the line. There's no telling when that might be and if it can happen. It costs a lot of money to print DVDs and the audience for these is very niche.

why pay money to watch a sentai on dvd when its online for free?

The way I see it, fansubs aren't generally a replacement for official subtitles but merely substitutes in the absence of them.
 

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
Let's be honest about this: fansubbing is a form of piracy. It's illegal. The only reason the toku fansubbers haven't been stamped out of existance is because they operate in a territory (i.e. the United States) where the creators of these shows aren't making any money, which means they have less motivation to spend money on taking people to court.

This is from before I got into the fandom, but I remember hearing that Toei once announced that the film 'Kamen Rider The Next' was going to get a North American release, and TV Nihon immediately got a message telling them to take down their fansub of the film or else they'd be issued a cease and desist order. So that's kinda become the unofficial rule: only sub things with no legal release, and if something later does get a legal release you take down your illegal version ASAP.

Also, from what they say it seems most of the people who make toku fansubs are doing it at least partially because they want to promote these shows and get more people to see and enjoy them. But fansubs only reach people who either are already fans or hear about them through word of mouth. A DVD promo campaign from Shout Factory will reach many more more people and create many more toku fans. And of course, if something gets an official sub then the people working for OverTime, TV Nihon etc get to kick back and do something else with their free time (maybe even watch some toku!) instead of spending it working on subs.
 
Not to mention that pre-Zyu Sentai are being worked on or have been finished.

-Love & Care/Rampage are working on Goranger. They're 52 out of 85 episodes in. Love & Care is also working on JAKQ and Turboranger.
-Nemet scrubbed all of Battle Fever J.
-Sun Vulcan was fully subbed by Gao Soul Forever.
-Grown Ups In Spandex have finished Bioman (minus the movie), Maskman, Liveman, and Jetman; plus they are currently subbing Changeman and Flashman.

That just leaves Denjiman, Goggle V (which was being subbed by Hikari Senshi before they went on hiatus), Dynaman (Millionfold Curiosity may be tackling this show after finishing Gavan), and Fiveman (which was being subbed by GUIS, but seems to be on hold right now).
 

Khaiden

Heroes are forever
...am I missing a memo here? I thought every Sentai post-Zyu was already subbed? If anything, that gives more than enough reason to focus on pre-Zyu sentai. (Or Pre-Jetman Sentai I should say).
 

Aoi Kurenai

Mad Skillz
...am I missing a memo here? I thought every Sentai post-Zyu was already subbed? If anything, that gives more than enough reason to focus on pre-Zyu sentai. (Or Pre-Jetman Sentai I should say).

Timeranger and Hurricanger remain unsubbed, but yeah, the majority of them are.

Think about it, why pay money to watch a sentai on dvd when its online for free?
To...actually support something you enjoy? $40 for an entire 50 episode series is an absolute steal. We never thought Sentai would be released in the West on DVD and here we are getting them at a fantastic price. Let's be honest, if you want to, you can still easily find those shows subbed online but tokusatsu has such a small community that the general consensus seems to be actually supporting the things we enjoy when we have the opportunity to. Like, I'm not really into toys so I would much rather have a DVD set than any toy.

Yeah about that, does Shout Factory demand fan subbers to take the videos or do the subbers do it on there own out of kindness to help them with sales?
Most fansubbers remove them of their own accord and ask fans to support the official releases.
 
D

Dr Kain

Guest
why make it so that the subs online are gone because shout factory wants to boost sales? Im sorry, but I dont wanna spend about $40 on a dvd series that i'll probably end up watching once then not watching again til long in the future. Also doing that will hurt the viewers in the end. Think about it, why pay money to watch a sentai on dvd when its online for free?

Because you should be buying the legal product. Fansubs are irrelevant once an official product is available on DVD/BD. The quality will never match that of a physical disc no matter how good it looks.

$40 is chump change for a 50 episode series. I paid $500 for the Japanese DVDs of each Zyu and Dai (and Kaku). That's $1500 spent on three series for the Japanese discs and now you get them all for a little over $100? You are getting these shows for a steal AND with subtitles.

Not just that, but anime series in the US cost twice as much for half of the episode count.

...am I missing a memo here? I thought every Sentai post-Zyu was already subbed? If anything, that gives more than enough reason to focus on pre-Zyu sentai. (Or Pre-Jetman Sentai I should say).

Yeah, Time and Hurri are really the only series left. Yeah, a lot of them are still under TV rips, but they are at least subbed.
 
Because you should be buying the legal product. Fansubs are irrelevant once an official product is available on DVD/BD. The quality will never match that of a physical disc no matter how good it looks.

$40 is chump change for a 50 episode series. I paid $500 for the Japanese DVDs of each Zyu and Dai (and Kaku). That's $1500 spent on three series for the Japanese discs and now you get them all for a little over $100? You are getting these shows for a steal AND with subtitles.

Not just that, but anime series in the US cost twice as much for half of the episode count.

It is unfortunate that you spent $1500 on sentai discs. I mean for collector's sake, its okay. But im sorry, I cant support the release of something that's going to be very niche in the very long run. Buying power rangers series on DVD/BD is one thing, because its popular towards kids and nostalgic towards older teens and adults, plus it has a demographic, but sentai is something that very few people in the US know about and will buy. As for the anime part, certain anime such as DBZ (and maybe AOT) would sell well as its not really niche, but some other anime are niche so there's that. What im saying is that if the show is going to be an inevitable niche product in the US, I cannot support it, only because I just feel like its not going to go anywhere, and to be quite frank, I have higher priorites to spend my money on.

One more thing, if the entire subs will be deleted to anticipate the US releases of the sentai, then it'll take forever to get to the other sentais to be released. that is all
 
It is unfortunate that you spent $1500 on sentai discs. I mean for collector's sake, its okay. But im sorry, I cant support the release of something that's going to be very niche in the very long run. Buying power rangers series on DVD/BD is one thing, because its popular towards kids and nostalgic towards older teens and adults, plus it has a demographic, but sentai is something that very few people in the US know about and will buy. As for the anime part, certain anime such as DBZ (and maybe AOT) would sell well as its not really niche, but some other anime are niche so there's that. What im saying is that if the show is going to be an inevitable niche product in the US, I cannot support it, only because I just feel like its not going to go anywhere, and to be quite frank, I have higher priorites to spend my money on.

One more thing, if the entire subs will be deleted to anticipate the US releases of the sentai, then it'll take forever to get to the other sentais to be released. that is all

Wow, okay.

First off, it is so blatantly obvious you're making excuses so that you can continue being a cheap ass.

Second, that way of thinking is self-defeating. "This is a niche product, so I won't buy it thus ensuring that it's a niche product". Believe it or not, every copy sold counts. Zyuranger clearly did well enough for Shout! Factory to pick up Dairanger and Kakuranger, so there is clearly enough of a market to keep them coming. Just because they don't sell millions of copies doesn't mean that there isn't a market for them that R1 companies are willing to please.

Third, your anime argument makes no goddamned sense at all. Anime has been consistently released over here for decades because it has a huge fanbase, and that started as a VERY niche market. For years, US companies thought Americans would only watch anime dubbed and edited. Then sales and acclaim of titles such as Akira and Ghost in the Shell proved that wrong. Now anime remains a huge market in the States thanks to streaming and a wide variety of titles to buy.

Fourth, you can watch Zyuranger streaming online for free on Shout! Factory's website. You will still be supporting the companies, and you can continue to be a cheap ass! What's not to lose?

Fifth, I don't understand your last line, but if I'm reading this right, then all I have to say is that Shout! has been releasing these shows fairly quickly. All 3 of their licensed shows have come out within just one and a half years of each other. If you mean the fansub groups will be slow, then you just need to be patient. They have lives and other priorities that are shockingly more rewarding and important than subbing Japanese children shows for free.
 
First off, it is so blatantly obvious you're making excuses so that you can continue being a cheap ass.

It's not the fact of me being a cheap ass. I love sentai and all, but I have other priorities that I spend my money on such as food, games, and other hobbies that I enjoy, and its safe to say, that buying sentai on dvd/bd is a VERY low priority for me

Second, that way of thinking is self-defeating. "This is a niche product, so I won't buy it thus ensuring that it's a niche product". Believe it or not, every copy sold counts. Zyuranger clearly did well enough for Shout! Factory to pick up Dairanger and Kakuranger, so there is clearly enough of a market to keep them coming. Just because they don't sell millions of copies doesn't mean that there isn't a market for them that R1 companies are willing to please.

It did sell tons of copies and Im happy, but again, its still not well-known enough by US standards to go anywhere.

Third, your anime argument makes no goddamned sense at all. Anime has been consistently released over here for decades because it has a huge fanbase, and that started as a VERY niche market. For years, US companies thought Americans would only watch anime dubbed and edited. Then sales and acclaim of titles such as Akira and Ghost in the Shell proved that wrong. Now anime remains a huge market in the States thanks to streaming and a wide variety of titles to buy.

Well thats from the companies themselves, like funimation, aniplex, etc., and not the anime itself. But I see where you're coming from, so I'll admit defeat with this argument

Fourth, you can watch Zyuranger streaming online for free on Shout! Factory's website. You will still be supporting the companies, and you can continue to be a cheap ass! What's not to lose?

Refer to my rebuttal with the first argument.


Fifth, I don't understand your last line, but if I'm reading this right, then all I have to say is that Shout! has been releasing these shows fairly quickly. All 3 of their licensed shows have come out within just one and a half years of each other. If you mean the fansub groups will be slow, then you just need to be patient. They have lives and other priorities that are shockingly more rewarding and important than subbing Japanese children shows for free.

I Did not say that fangroup subs will be slow. Im not expecting them to be really quick with their subs. If they take their time, that's okay with me, they can take as long as they want. As long as they say they will be dedicated to sub the whole series, then i'm fine. But it isn't fair to only make shout factory subs of zyuranger, dairanger, and/or kakuranger to be the only subs of those series just for the sake of being fully supported. Give more than only 1 person or group a chance to do stuff is all i'm saying.
 

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
...am I missing a memo here? I thought every Sentai post-Zyu was already subbed? If anything, that gives more than enough reason to focus on pre-Zyu sentai. (Or Pre-Jetman Sentai I should say).
GoGo-V seems pretty certain to get done soon. Timeranger has dragged on for so long that a retired fansubber recently joked on the tokusatsu network podcast that it was likely Shout Factory would be the first to sub it. AFAIK Hurricaneger is only available as a hk sub.
But it isn't fair to only make shout factory subs of zyuranger, dairanger, and/or kakuranger to be the only subs of those series just for the sake of being fully supported. Give more than only 1 person or group a chance to do stuff is all i'm saying.
Well that's not so much about being fair as it is about breaking the law. Shout Factory have the license, anyone else is pirating. Toei are aware that the fansub groups (TV Nihon, OverTime etc) exist and those groups don't want to end up in court.

The fansub groups don't seem to be interested in competing with the official sources anyway. A while back there was a possibility of subbed toku simulcasting happening on American TV, and all the groups made posts saying how much they were looking forward to it and if it happened then they would immediately stop fansubbing the weeklies.
 

Ice Ixa

Lurker
In regards to Timeranger, RRR (Red Rogue Ranger?) has the full series done, but those were less of direct translations, more like broad strokes. I mean, it's watchable, I watched it all, no problem, it's just not the best, but it's far better than HK.
 
D

Dr Kain

Guest
Okay, wow... um, where to begin? I think this is the quickest I've seen a topic fill up in less than a day.

I also hope I don't come off as assholish as I may sound when I respond to the following comments. Reader discretion is advised. :laugh:

It is unfortunate that you spent $1500 on sentai discs.

How is that unfortunate? I have a ton of Toku DVDs I have imported from Japan. The first two volumes of Flashman and Kamen Rider 71, all of Zyu, Dai, Kaku, Car, Ginga, GoGoV, Time, Gao, Aba, Magi, Gokai (on BD), Black, Ryuki, Blade, Sailor Moon, Garo's first season and the Beasts of White Knight, and B-Fighter Kabuto. Oh, and a ton of the movies. I don't regret buying a singe one of them because I got to show my support to the shows I love. And just so you know, except for some of the Sentai movies, all of those discs cost me at least $40 each.

I mean for collector's sake, its okay. But im sorry, I cant support the release of something that's going to be very niche in the very long run. Buying power rangers series on DVD/BD is one thing, because its popular towards kids and nostalgic towards older teens and adults, plus it has a demographic, but sentai is something that very few people in the US know about and will buy.

Uh what? This makes no sense to me at all. So because a show is popular with kids and nostalgic it is okay to buy it, but a show you like because you like it for it being the show you like does not? What does Sentai having a niche market have to do with YOUR personal enjoyment of it? Why not support something you enjoy?

BTW, if you think the Toku market is niche, go to an anime convention. I do Toku panels every year and my local con, which is usually only about 15,000 attendees and I get a packed room with every panel. Check out something bigger like Anime Expo and you will see TONS of cosplayers from Toku series. Yes, it doesn't have DBZ numbers, but to write it off as a niche market is foolish.

As for the anime part, certain anime such as DBZ (and maybe AOT) would sell well as its not really niche, but some other anime are niche so there's that. What im saying is that if the show is going to be an inevitable niche product in the US, I cannot support it, only because I just feel like its not going to go anywhere, and to be quite frank, I have higher priorites to spend my money on.

That makes no sense.

One more thing, if the entire subs will be deleted to anticipate the US releases of the sentai, then it'll take forever to get to the other sentais to be released. that is all

Shout! Factory released Zyu in Feb of 2015, Dai in Nov of 2015, and Kaku will be in May of 2015. They have done three series in barely 15 months. It took TV-Nihon 8 years to fully sub Dairanger and they were not even halfway through Zyu after 10 years. Sure, if you don't count the time they initially started and went with when they started the series up using the Japanese DVDs, then it was shorter, but still a huge amount of time compared to Shout! Factory.

It's not the fact of me being a cheap ass. I love sentai and all, but I have other priorities that I spend my money on such as food, games, and other hobbies that I enjoy, and its safe to say, that buying sentai on dvd/bd is a VERY low priority for me.

Then why are you complaining in the first place? God, I hate using this term, but you have given me no choice. You are not entitled to free fansubs. Fansubs are there for our enjoyment, but they are there to exist when there are not other alternatives. Look at Kamen Rider V3 and Kikaider. No one has bothered to sub them because the shows are legally available on DVD in Hawaii. I hate it because I can't easily obtain them, but they still exist so I just have to deal with it.

It did sell tons of copies and Im happy, but again, its still not well-known enough by US standards to go anywhere.

Again, what does that have to do with anything?

I Did not say that fangroup subs will be slow. Im not expecting them to be really quick with their subs. If they take their time, that's okay with me, they can take as long as they want. As long as they say they will be dedicated to sub the whole series, then i'm fine. But it isn't fair to only make shout factory subs of zyuranger, dairanger, and/or kakuranger to be the only subs of those series just for the sake of being fully supported. Give more than only 1 person or group a chance to do stuff is all i'm saying.

Yes, actually it does. Zyu, Dai, and Kaku are LEGALLY OWNED by Shout! Factory. You might as well say, "Well I prefer the fonts fansubbers use, so I am not going to support the official releases because their subs to not appeal to my personal tastes."

Fansubs are illegal when you get down to it, as much as I hate to admit it. Again, they are there to help us when there is no other alternative. However, the last thing fansubbers need is a blow back from companies for them still subbing things available legally. Hell, did you not see what just happened to this pompous group that was going to sell bootlegged Blu-Rays of Godzilla 1985, saying they have done a fan restoration of the movie? Toho gave them a C&D letter about 5 days later and when the guy in charge deleted his post and told them to "Go **** themselves," the website was gone two days later. All traces of them ever existing is gone outside of saved images of their posts.

Hell, just doing reviews of Japanese movies and TV shows on Youtube is an issue. I got my Dairanger review blocked from being viewed in Japan for a 15 second clip. Toho has claimed numerous reviews on me.

The fansub groups don't seem to be interested in competing with the official sources anyway. A while back there was a possibility of subbed toku simulcasting happening on American TV, and all the groups made posts saying how much they were looking forward to it and if it happened then they would immediately stop fansubbing the weeklies.

This also holds true. Why fansub something legally available when they can fansub something not available?

BTW, I thought of the same thing about Timeranger. :laugh:
 

Edmond Dantes

New Member
Personally I'm happy for the Shout releases, altho I do wish I had grabbed Kakuranger before it got announced.... not because I like pirating, but because I like to have two different translations for comparison purposes. As someone who only knows pidgin Japanese, I find the best way to enjoy most stories is to watch two different takes on them to ensure I'm getting the nuances.

I understand GUIS removing the Kakuranger episodes, but I wish I could still get the scripts as srt files or something.
 
Fansubs are illegal when you get down to it, as much as I hate to admit it. Again, they are there to help us when there is no other alternative. However, the last thing fansubbers need is a blow back from companies for them still subbing things available legally. Hell, did you not see what just happened to this pompous group that was going to sell bootlegged Blu-Rays of Godzilla 1985, saying they have done a fan restoration of the movie? Toho gave them a C&D letter about 5 days later and when the guy in charge deleted his post and told them to "Go **** themselves," the website was gone two days later. All traces of them ever existing is gone outside of saved images of their posts.

This doesn't apply to only just you, but to some people that I've had this conversation with in this topic. Saying that the act of piracy is wrong (and don't get me wrong, it really is, but can you really stop it? It's an inevitable thing) and that I'm wrong for watching the sentai online subbed, then why blame people for DL'ing the episodes subbed from the internet? Because its illegal? You could say that, but then why not say that the fansubbers are in the wrong for uploading them? Technically, they would be distributing this stuff illegally. Like I said however, piracy is a REALLY HARD thing to stop. You can slow it down, but very difficult to stop. Also, tell that to the other subbing groups out there (not just toku, but anime as well) uploading subs of shows and sometimes the shows themselves. Im not blaming the fansubbers for watching online, but if you're going to blame those who DL of watch online, then you should at least trace it back to the fansubbers.
 

Khaiden

Heroes are forever
Thanks for the info. I thought for sure all of them were subbed. Surprising to hear that about Hurricaneger and Timeranger.
My point was: I thought the priority for fansubbers should be on shows that haven't been subbed (officially or not)... is that such a crazy idea?

About the prices of dvds: somebody posted about this sometime ago. Basically, the reason why the prices are so high is because renting services are still succesful in Japan and thus there are few people who need to purchase it themselves. Most of the purchases come from the video stores that offer them for rent. Thus, it is aimed mostly at vendors and collectors.

Look at Kamen Rider V3 and Kikaider. No one has bothered to sub them because the shows are legally available on DVD in Hawaii.
If only somebody would do the movie, though... (or better yet, the Skyrider special which includes the V3 movie in its entirety).
 

Fox-Chan

Harumph.
This doesn't apply to only just you, but to some people that I've had this conversation with in this topic. Saying that the act of piracy is wrong (and don't get me wrong, it really is, but can you really stop it? It's an inevitable thing) and that I'm wrong for watching the sentai online subbed, then why blame people for DL'ing the episodes subbed from the internet? Because its illegal? You could say that, but then why not say that the fansubbers are in the wrong for uploading them? Technically, they would be distributing this stuff illegally. Like I said however, piracy is a REALLY HARD thing to stop. You can slow it down, but very difficult to stop. Also, tell that to the other subbing groups out there (not just toku, but anime as well) uploading subs of shows and sometimes the shows themselves. Im not blaming the fansubbers for watching online, but if you're going to blame those who DL of watch online, then you should at least trace it back to the fansubbers.

I'm pretty sure everyone is already aware that fansubbers are "in the wrong" even before a product is legally available in their area.

However, the reason piracy and by extension fansubs exist is because a demand for the product is not being met by legal means. While it's impossible to stop, piracy of a certain product does tend to go down if there is a way to have it that is legal and reasonably priced.
 
D

Dr Kain

Guest
This doesn't apply to only just you, but to some people that I've had this conversation with in this topic. Saying that the act of piracy is wrong (and don't get me wrong, it really is, but can you really stop it? It's an inevitable thing) and that I'm wrong for watching the sentai online subbed, then why blame people for DL'ing the episodes subbed from the internet? Because its illegal? You could say that, but then why not say that the fansubbers are in the wrong for uploading them? Technically, they would be distributing this stuff illegally. Like I said however, piracy is a REALLY HARD thing to stop. You can slow it down, but very difficult to stop. Also, tell that to the other subbing groups out there (not just toku, but anime as well) uploading subs of shows and sometimes the shows themselves. Im not blaming the fansubbers for watching online, but if you're going to blame those who DL of watch online, then you should at least trace it back to the fansubbers.

No one is saying you are wrong. What we are saying is that you are acting entitled as if you deserve to watch them for free. You've got 36 other series you can watch for free right now. Supporting three shows is not that big of a deal. BTW, Zyuranger was on sale a few week's back for $28. That's TWENTY EIGHT DOLLARS for 50 episodes. That is chump change.
 

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