Problems in toei tokusatsu shows and how to improve them.

[Bigdog]

On the subject of the single riders, nowadays, it would sound less impressive than it did during Kuuga. It would raise the question, "How come this one guy has a specific superpower/role to defeat monsters?"

Agreed.

Buffy did it until they added Kendra and Faith. It could work in theory, but then the writers would have to make the single Rider more dynamic than in the past. The other issue with Buffy is it became too claustrophobic after the third season. Too many things happened in Sunnydale and nowhere else in the States, too give it a feel of fresh air. Kendra was a great example of changing the dynamic, and bringing an outsider. Faith was just a reckless Buffy, a poor excuse of a second hero until they fleshed her out into an antihero in ways Buffy never could. Spike was a great third counterpart, because he was a compelling antagonist and character right until he became good, unlike Angel whose arc was done with by Season 2. After a while, it became a little bit unbelievable as an urban fantasy that everything happened in Sunnydale.

Comparing Buffy to Rider is extremely difficult because they're both two separate genres of television. Rider could easily go an entire 50 episodes alone ,but not Buffy in the long term. Buffy exhausted the single hero formula and it was a good thing they added a few more heroes to the mix over time, instead of making most of the characters sidelined. Rider could stay in the same general location which would be a decent change for story, but any Rider production would need to add more dimensions of the world building,otherwise the city feels like a movie set.

If Buffy only was by herself for seven seasons, it'd get extremely boring. Then again, the later seasons made it possible for anybody to kill monsters without a Slayer, which is something I can't see Rider doing unless it was a compelling reason.

 

[kamsasdn13213231]

I really don't like this line. PreCure does have several elements in common with Sentai especially but it is an anime, it belongs to a separate genre (magical girls) and it has different focus and priorities: for instance, most Sentai/Kamen Rider heroes are adults while most Cures are middle school aged. And PreCure still reinforces negative ideas about gender roles, albeit it has a far greater diversity and range of female characters than you'll see in any of Toei's live action tokusatsu.

I agree Toei does try to switch things up every year. Over the last few years of Sentai they've played with different team sizes, colour combinations and gimmicks (the Buddyroids, the Norikae Changes, etc.) Kamen Rider has finally started to move away from the two-Rider setup, and is trying different things: Fourze was the first Rider in high school. Drive is the first to have a car rather than a bike. Ghost will be an actual ghost, which is something the franchise hasn't done before. While I understand people would like to see the underlying basic format go, I can't blame Toei for not wanting to do that, given that most of their recent efforts to try something considerably different have ended poorly (Go-Busters was a commercial and ratings flop; Gaim didn't sell as well as expected)

That's true the KR and even Super sentai franchise always do different things every year not to bore the viewers and not to repeat the same thing all over again but if kamen rider franchise need to be different then they should do the single rider thing again like what they with kuuga and to have a secondary rider if possible but without a mouthpiece making him riderman (but with kamen rider as his alternate name) nobody in toei makes live action tokusatsu superheroes without mouthpieces before americans and even europeans do that even my country did that in one show.

But about pretty cure it was intended to be anime although may be a single male cure as their sidekick would be good enough just once but if kids are bored with the franchise maybe toei and bandai should come up with a new franchise for younger unisex (boys and girls) viewers to see or maybe make a new anime franchise aimed for young female viewers I wonder if toei and bandai would make a male version of the pretty cure franchise aimed to boys much like kamen rider to super sentai at least bandai with the help of sunrise did that with the latest new animated series tribe cool crew so that maybe it would work out for the unisex (boys and girls) viewers .


Gaim is a good show for viewers especially older audience though as you said has low toy ratings (probably that the "fruit" gimmick is too silly) and even go-busters did a good try despite low toy ratings however with the thing good tokusatsu show with high viewer ratings but low toy ratings and mixed review tokusatsu series but with high toy ratings that could be a problem maybe both bandai and toei should come up with a rider and sentai show that will not only increase viewership ratings but make the toys rating big as well (just to earn profit) my suggestion maybe have a studio come up with a theme (or gimmick) and the story and let the toy company do the merchandising.

I've always thought of Precure targeting a similar demographic(elementary school kids) as Rider, but for girls, because it airs in the timeslot directly after Rider. So there is some overlap there.
I think "henshin heroes" and "magical girls" are just about similar with regards to genre(they both transform and fight monsters to protect people) which is why I commented as above.
I feel that Precure was able to bring the age of the characters down because it's animated and not live action.
Also, the reason why I think magical girls are rarely live-action is because they don't wear masks, so it's harder to use stunt doubles.

Pretty cure franchise is always intended as a magical anime series if viewers want a live action magical girl series how about they revive the magical girls series from the Toei Fushigi Comedy Series.

Agreed.

Buffy did it until they added Kendra and Faith. It could work in theory, but then the writers would have to make the single Rider more dynamic than in the past. The other issue with Buffy is it became too claustrophobic after the third season. Too many things happened in Sunnydale and nowhere else in the States, too give it a feel of fresh air. Kendra was a great example of changing the dynamic, and bringing an outsider. Faith was just a reckless Buffy, a poor excuse of a second hero until they fleshed her out into an antihero in ways Buffy never could. Spike was a great third counterpart, because he was a compelling antagonist and character right until he became good, unlike Angel whose arc was done with by Season 2. After a while, it became a little bit unbelievable as an urban fantasy that everything happened in Sunnydale.

Comparing Buffy to Rider is extremely difficult because they're both two separate genres of television. Rider could easily go an entire 50 episodes alone ,but not Buffy in the long term. Buffy exhausted the single hero formula and it was a good thing they added a few more heroes to the mix over time, instead of making most of the characters sidelined. Rider could stay in the same general location which would be a decent change for story, but any Rider production would need to add more dimensions of the world building,otherwise the city feels like a movie set.

If Buffy only was by herself for seven seasons, it'd get extremely boring. Then again, the later seasons made it possible for anybody to kill monsters without a Slayer, which is something I can't see Rider doing unless it was a compelling reason.

You know i kinda agree with this one the reason buffy getting a rival slayer is because shows or media which is long running needed a rival or an evil counterpart to make it look different as if it will both people who have similar power and objectives counteract with each other like superman to flash in the dc universe,cyclops to wolverine in xmen,james bond to other rivals like grace jones from a view to kill , Francisco Scaramanga from the man with a golden gun and Alec Trevelyan from goldeneye.

But toei tokusatsu shows like kamen rider and super sentai it's been repetitive and boring the kamen rider franchise should have go back to a single rider concept which happens to kuuga for once (especially reviving the cyborg element to any future heisei series) so maybe adding rivals and anti hero to the hero counterpart would work for medias like comic or tv shows which are long running but for a series which will last a year in a franchise and make new stories,new protagonists and villains every year it wouldn't work anymore because its too repititive.

 

[Shynilyte]

But toei tokusatsu shows like kamen rider and super sentai it's been repetitive and boring the kamen rider franchise should have go back to a single rider concept which happens to kuuga for once

You're saying that Kamen Rider should stop being repetitive and... repeat a different thing it's already done? I think I sort of get what you're saying, but not completely.

 

[TheLPFan1997]

I'm actually wondering... what's keeping Toei from chasing after advertisers? Is there nothing to be milked from the commercial breaks? Is there a lack of kid-oriented products corporations want to see marketed in the SHT time slot? Is it simply because the slot is not raking up any money-worthy ratings? (paradoxically, if they do chase after advertisers, raking up ratings would be a new top priority unless the explanation is that viewer apathy is uncontrollable).

(I know this isn't a fitting question to ask the fandom)
Furthermore, why is Toei not willing to broaden their demographics? KR and SS have appeals that become like family shows (at least, in other countries), instead of something you'll find on Disney Junior (which is how they, apparently, treat it). It makes me think that the target demographics are too consolidated in the Japanese society (kids don't get to watch the telly with their folks due to work, I presume), that you can't mix viewing habits between clearly defined age groups. I find it really sad that these shows are given glass ceilings like that. I'm not complaining that it's toyetic (that's why I'm here!), but seriously, what's with the apparent glass ceiling on target demographics? It's even live action for God's sake! That's like, (supposed to be) guaranteed viewership flexibility compared to a cartoon/anime!

I don't have any reliable sources on these, so these are all conjecture.

 

[kamsasdn13213231]

You're saying that Kamen Rider should stop being repetitive and... repeat a different thing it's already done? I think I sort of get what you're saying, but not completely.

That's right so i think that the studio bring back the concepts from the showa era like cyborg theme,insect theme,motorcycles and even a true evil organisation similar like shocker not like the 'Heisei' ones and perhaps maybe a single rider for one show only or to have secondary rider a moder 'riderman' with no mouthpiece.

I'm actually wondering... what's keeping Toei from chasing after advertisers? Is there nothing to be milked from the commercial breaks? Is there a lack of kid-oriented products corporations want to see marketed in the SHT time slot? Is it simply because the slot is not raking up any money-worthy ratings? (paradoxically, if they do chase after advertisers, raking up ratings would be a new top priority unless the explanation is that viewer apathy is uncontrollable).

(I know this isn't a fitting question to ask the fandom)
Furthermore, why is Toei not willing to broaden their demographics? KR and SS have appeals that become like family shows (at least, in other countries), instead of something you'll find on Disney Junior (which is how they, apparently, treat it). It makes me think that the target demographics are too consolidated in the Japanese society (kids don't get to watch the telly with their folks due to work, I presume), that you can't mix viewing habits between clearly defined age groups. I find it really sad that these shows are given glass ceilings like that. I'm not complaining that it's toyetic (that's why I'm here!), but seriously, what's with the apparent glass ceiling on target demographics? It's even live action for God's sake! That's like, (supposed to be) guaranteed viewership flexibility compared to a cartoon/anime!

I don't have any reliable sources on these, so these are all conjecture.

I agree with that ,The kamen rider franchise did a attempt by making series aimed to older audience called shin kamen rider with a pilot film but it didn't catch up at least super sentai did that with their mature but comedic spinoff akibaranger for 2 seasons.
But still i think the reason kids are not interested in tokusatsu shows because they prefer anime,kind of.Perhaps the reason why there are low ratings is because of that the sunday daytime timeslot i think they should have aired the shows on friday or saturday evening timeslot to increase viewership and have the children and adult watch it, it could especially help the merchandise.

Anyway seeing these condition i think its better toei and bandai should consider giving both the KR and SS franchise a "break" a really really long "break"

 

[Toku Prime]

I really don't get whole "what can they do after 20/30 seasons?' thing
How about they actually TRY TO DO SOMETHING for a change?
They've tried it with Gaim and it worked pretty good.

As lazy put it:

While I understand people would like to see the underlying basic format go, I can't blame Toei for not wanting to do that, given that most of their recent efforts to try something considerably different have ended poorly (Go-Busters was a commercial and ratings flop; Gaim didn't sell as well as expected)

There are billions of yen riding on the success of these shows. Nobody wants to be the one who drops the ball and lands a long-running franchise in danger.

Most of the creative team members working on these shows were around in the 90s when Metal Hero slowly crashed and burned by creating a number of series that were apparently very well liked by the grown-up Japanese toku fans but got neither good ratings or good toy sales, even after they changed course and tried to get those back. They were around when there was an axe hovering over Sentai, with each series seeming like it would be the last and toy sales just about kept it alive. And they were around when Hibiki tried to be a little different, only for the staff members who cared less about toy sales to be fired mid-series. They learned the hard way what keeps these shows going.

Yeah, Gaim was a little different while still dealing with the commercial requirements, and Rider didn't suffer for it. But the series wasn't more successful either. So there's no incentive for Toei to encourage more of it.

While the birth rate is way lower then it was a decade ago, do you also think low ratings can also be because of lack of interest with Sentai and Kamen Rider these days? Maybe most people don't find the newer shows all that interesting and choose not to bother with it.

Neon Genesis Evangeleon director Hideaki Anno is a big toku fan. He's signed up to direct Toho's next Godzilla film. Before that was announced he had created a tokusatsu exhibition in Japan. I recall reading a translated interview with him online (which of course I can't find again now that I need it :redface2 where he mentioned that he thought that Japanese audiences, especially those in their teens and twenties, seemed to regard tokusatsu as this weird, old fashioned kind of thing and no longer part of mainstream cinema/TV. It may just be that toku is a niche genre now.

I really don't like this line. PreCure does have several elements in common with Sentai especially but it is an anime, it belongs to a separate genre (magical girls) and it has different focus and priorities

If you look at Bandai toy fair stalls, they often promote PreCure as a trio along with Sentai and Rider. I've heard it descibed before as the "unofficial third member of Super Hero Time". I think it's probably safe to say that from a commercial point of view it's intended to be the girl-focused equivilant. Heck, the current series is using a rather familiar key gimmick :sweat: And there's something of a historical connection too. Most modern day magical girl shows, including the PreCure franchise, walk in the shadow of Sailor Moon, whose creator has admitted to being a massive Sentai fan and taking a lot from it.

You're saying that Kamen Rider should stop being repetitive and... repeat a different thing it's already done? I think I sort of get what you're saying, but not completely.

A lot of the basic Rider format came from Toei wanting their own version of Ultraman. Ishinomori was not shy about re-using ideas from one show to another. The entire genre is, and always has been, based on repetition really.

I'm actually wondering... what's keeping Toei from chasing after advertisers? Is there nothing to be milked from the commercial breaks? Is there a lack of kid-oriented products corporations want to see marketed in the SHT time slot? Is it simply because the slot is not raking up any money-worthy ratings? (paradoxically, if they do chase after advertisers, raking up ratings would be a new top priority unless the explanation is that viewer apathy is uncontrollable).

It's not Toei's job to organise the commercial breaks. That's the TV station's job. I know TV Nihon tend to throw an extra video file in their torrents showing some of the commercials that air during the breaks. A lot of them tend to be for Bandai toys, McDonalds happy meals, and so on. Funnily enough, the same type of companies that tend to be listed during the sponsor logos after the opening credits. :sweat:

 

[Kamen Rider IXA]

They're doing something. You just don't like it.

How about some examples?

 

[kuroihikari]

How about some examples?

Well, for one they're much more kid-friendly now, which for me is better since that's their target audience. Ninninger is the silliest sentai in years(even more un-serious than Go-onger), with Kasumi, and Drive is a VERY unique Rider.

I'm too lazy to create a write-up listing all the new things each of the shows tried to do. I'm assuming you can figure it out for yourself.

 

[kamsasdn13213231]

There are billions of yen riding on the success of these shows. Nobody wants to be the one who drops the ball and lands a long-running franchise in danger.

Most of the creative team members working on these shows were around in the 90s when Metal Hero slowly crashed and burned by creating a number of series that were apparently very well liked by the grown-up Japanese toku fans but got neither good ratings or good toy sales, even after they changed course and tried to get those back. They were around when there was an axe hovering over Sentai, with each series seeming like it would be the last and toy sales just about kept it alive. And they were around when Hibiki tried to be a little different, only for the staff members who cared less about toy sales to be fired mid-series. They learned the hard way what keeps these shows going.

Yeah, Gaim was a little different while still dealing with the commercial requirements, and Rider didn't suffer for it. But the series wasn't more successful either. So there's no incentive for Toei to encourage more of it.

I guess this the reason why tokusatsu franchise keep running its due to popularity but seeing low ratings and both sentai and rider franchise not like their showa predecessors and have low toy sales maybe its best that the two series franchise will take a long break until they revived many years with a good reason why they are revived possibly to entertain old and new alike.

But reading the part about staff members of hibiki who cared less about toy sales and more on entertaining except getting fired it doesn't help the "toy ratings" that's not fair it seems all the toei and bandai think about is toy ratings rather the its true purpose entertaining the audience,If they would have hibiki could have been the best rider series rather than being executive meddled in the second half to focus on toy sales, toy sales or not its doesn't matter getting more viewers is more important to keep the genre and the franchise going if not then it's better to end it.

Neon Genesis Evangeleon director Hideaki Anno is a big toku fan. He's signed up to direct Toho's next Godzilla film. Before that was announced he had created a tokusatsu exhibition in Japan. I recall reading a translated interview with him online (which of course I can't find again now that I need it :redface2 where he mentioned that he thought that Japanese audiences, especially those in their teens and twenties, seemed to regard tokusatsu as this weird, old fashioned kind of thing and no longer part of mainstream cinema/TV. It may just be that toku is a niche genre now.

True,Hideaki anno the creator of evangelion is going to direct godzilla as he is a fan of tokusatsu genre what could possibly go wrong unless of course he is about to use his surreal gainax twist in the franchise like he did to evangelion i mean it is great that we might once again see godzilla revive again in its birth place japan (though the second american version is a success)

As for what you said about tokusatsu as niche genre i agree with you and it seems sad,it's just like the fall of claymation that began in 70's because of better special effects or was it the 80s anyway the tokusatsu genre will be gone and it will probably move to cgi territory like it would happen to ultraman in 2016 when tsuburaya production is about to make a cgi ultraman project.

If you look at Bandai toy fair stalls, they often promote PreCure as a trio along with Sentai and Rider. I've heard it described before as the "unofficial third member of Super Hero Time". I think it's probably safe to say that from a commercial point of view it's intended to be the girl-focused equivalent. Heck, the current series is using a rather familiar key gimmick :sweat: And there's something of a historical connection too. Most modern day magical girl shows, including the PreCure franchise, walk in the shadow of Sailor Moon, whose creator has admitted to being a massive Sentai fan and taking a lot from it.

No kidding, the creator of sailor moon started the series on codename:sailor V as a affectionate parody to the tokusatsu series but now evolved into its own genre with the next series sailor moon.As for what you said about PreCure as the "unofficial third member of Super Hero Time" why couldn't they add tribe cool crew as the "unofficial fourth member of Super Hero Time" since it's aimed for a unisex audience ,its also made by bandai entertainment and it's a dance competition anime like series that is unless of course toei and bandai would comeup with a franchise aimed for younger male demographic perhaps something similar to maybe hero bank.

A lot of the basic Rider format came from Toei wanting their own version of Ultraman. Ishinomori was not shy about re-using ideas from one show to another. The entire genre is, and always has been, based on repetition really.

Yeah this thing happens to most writer when they are creating a story so that's not a problem.

It's not Toei's job to organise the commercial breaks. That's the TV station's job. I know TV Nihon tend to throw an extra video file in their torrents showing some of the commercials that air during the breaks. A lot of them tend to be for Bandai toys, McDonalds happy meals, and so on. Funnily enough, the same type of companies that tend to be listed during the sponsor logos after the opening credits. :sweat:

Its true and also tv nihon is a fan sub group they just sub foreign japanese tv shows that's all.

Well, for one they're much more kid-friendly now, which for me is better since that's their target audience. Ninninger is the silliest sentai in years(even more un-serious than Go-onger), with Kasumi, and Drive is a VERY unique Rider.

I'm too lazy to create a write-up listing all the new things each of the shows tried to do. I'm assuming you can figure it out for yourself.

That is true and as i said before both franchise are a family oriented series.