Overtime Subs is no good

LaZerwolfX

Henshin a Go-Go!!
TVN translating wrong a lot of times is NOT a matter of opinion. And no, I'm not talking about translation choices here which you always seem to fall back on. You know, "like a robot". I'm talking about the translations being plain wrong. That's not "spouting logic like a robot". That's using the word "logic" properly. Reliance on facts and reason rather than guesswork and opinion (which BTW, is what you're doing, see now why I called it illogical?).

I don't know why you still haven't realized that. Or rather you probably do, you just don't want to admit you're being unnecessarily antagonistic about it.

apparently you misunderstood, im saying which group you choose to support is a matter of opinion. and as I said, the mistakes don't bother me all that much. And I personally find O-T's translation choices to be more distracting than TV-N's mistakes. maybe wait to make sure you completely understand before you shoot your mouth off. I haven't made any guesses, I have assessed the facts and used them to help form my opinion.
 
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KingRanger

Banned
apparently you misunderstood, im saying which group you choose to support is a matter of opinion. and as I said, the mistakes don't bother me all that much. And I personally find O-T's translation choices to be more distracting than TV-N's mistakes. maybe wait to make sure you completely understand before you shoot your mouth off. I haven't made any guesses, I have assessed the facts and used them to help form my opinion.

He did not misunderstand. He replied to you based on what you said. What ever your intentions where in what you said, how you said it is how people are going to reply.
 

LaZerwolfX

Henshin a Go-Go!!
He did not misunderstand. He replied to you based on what you said. What ever your intentions where in what you said, how you said it is how people are going to reply.

I can deal with kuroihikari, dudes just passionate about what he feels in regard to subtitles and translating, I can at least respect that. But I have literally zero desire to put up with your ridiculousness.

Abandon-Thread.gif
 
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But bottom line, as I've said before hundreds of times, softsubs are easy to edit. If the word Kamen bothers you, if the word Sentai bothers you, if ANY thing in the translated script bothers you, just edit it and be done with it. :)

How do you edit soft subs? Only time I have used them is with my current watch of Changeman with Bunnyhat RAWs and DFF's scripts.
 

jai009

Lurker
How do you edit soft subs? Only time I have used them is with my current watch of Changeman with Bunnyhat RAWs and DFF's scripts.

You can open up the .ass scripts in Notepad/Wordpad and edit that way. Of course, there's also Aegisub you can use.
 

kuroihikari

Member
apparently you misunderstood, im saying which group you choose to support is a matter of opinion. and as I said, the mistakes don't bother me all that much. And I personally find O-T's translation choices to be more distracting than TV-N's mistakes. maybe wait to make sure you completely understand before you shoot your mouth off. I haven't made any guesses, I have assessed the facts and used them to help form my opinion.

I understood the personal preference part perfectly fine.

However, mistakes are mistakes, whether they're distracting or not. Many mistakes is much worse than anything that you may get distracted by. It's like comparing the performance of two kids in a multiple choice exam, one of whose penmanship's rather weird, while another who just plainly gets the answers wrong.
 
So now every episode every week you can but in the extra work to change Kamen into Masked. Every week. Even though you know what it means anyway.
 

Herman the German

Treasure Cards of the Underworld
So now every episode every week you can but in the extra work to change Kamen into Masked. Every week. Even though you know what it means anyway.

Technically speaking, hitting Find/Replace --> Replace All shouldn't take more than a couple seconds if anyone actually felt inclined to be that silly. :B
 

Undrave

CRETINS! ALL OF THEM!
Proper names, however, are always a finicky thing when it comes to translations. There's hardly a right or wrong answer, just personal taste.

Professionally, it seems to be the concensus that you shouldn't translate a PERSON's name, even if it's an obvious pun, or even a pun using a different language other than Japanese or English. But when it comes to the names of THINGS, it can be 50/50.

As someone mentioned on the previous page, KAMEHAMEHA was left untranslated in just about every DUB of Dragon Ball, Z, and GT. But the thing about that is... The makers of the dub can CONTACT the makers of the source material and make sure the translation reflects what the creators intended. In other words, Kamehameha was probably left as-is because Akira Toriyama WANTED it to be left untranslated.

We're talking about Super Sentai, something that doesn't have an official release in too many other countries. Things like Rekka Daizanto, Medagaburyu, even many of the titles for Tokusatsu shows; those names do infer to words in the Japanese language. Keeping them as-is means you've lost something in translation, some kind of pun or meaning that was suppose to be invoked.

So when it comes to names of things, I can swing either way. However, I applaud ANY fansub group that tries to translate the name of something while making it flow and understandable like it's original name did. :)

Personally I'd rather stuff that exists as TOY not have a translated name to make it easier to find such toy should I want to buy it.
 

Lynxara

Nice post!!
So does that mean if they do (or if they have already done) a sub of Kuuga - Decade, that would be done as "Masked Rider" because that's how it is on the logo for those series?

This would probably be the case, although a lot would depend on who translated said project. Different OT translators have different preferences. In particular, one of our two most prolific translators prefers to keep "brand names" like Kamen and Sentai intact if possible, and the other generally prefers to translate them. Since the translator does the heaviest lifting in a project like this, usually the rest of the staff tries to respect that particular translator's preferences.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule. For instance, when our main two translators are working together on a project, there's basically compromises made back and forth. Sometimes compromises are also made for editorial reasons. The Kyoryuger translator typically prefers to leave Sentai untranslated, but it was clear from the first drafts of the first episode scripts that doing so in that particular series would result in a lot of nonsense dialogue.

For instance, while an OT sub of a Showa series would probably call them Masked Riders, Showa guys making guest appearances in Heisei movies are usually called Kamen Rider [whatever]. This is usually to keep consistency with the names of the Heisei guys, who are the stars of the show. The official title of Movie Wars 2010 might include "Masked Rider Decade & Kamen Rider W," but writing it that way in actual subtitles would be horribly distracting.
 

Herman the German

Treasure Cards of the Underworld
On the subject of translating names, I just recalled the German dub of Darkwing Duck.

While the title character was named as-is, his huma-- err, duck identity was entirely changed to convey the species-naming and such; therefore he's named "Eddie Erpel" in Germany, Erpel being the German word for a male duck, and keeping the alliteration going (though I guess having the last name mean male duck brings up some oddities with the daughter being named that, too. :V )
Similarly, they named things like St. Canard "St. Erpelsburg" or Honker Muddlefoot "Alfred Wirrfuß" (Wirrfuß being the closest to Muddlefoot, I suppose) in Germany, for the purpose (or so I presume) of conveying as much of that stuff to kids as the native language viewers would have gotten. In that sense, I believe conveying things like meaningful names (if it's not serious, human character names without a pun very "obviously" (to a translator) planted in there) can and should be translated to make the viewer feel more "welcome", for lack of a better term.

Just thought I'd throw in my two medals.
 

Drazic

Lurker
On the subject of translating names, I just recalled the German dub of Darkwing Duck.

While the title character was named as-is, his huma-- err, duck identity was entirely changed to convey the species-naming and such; therefore he's named "Eddie Erpel" in Germany, Erpel being the German word for a male duck, and keeping the alliteration going (though I guess having the last name mean male duck brings up some oddities with the daughter being named that, too. :V )
Similarly, they named things like St. Canard "St. Erpelsburg" or Honker Muddlefoot "Alfred Wirrfuß" (Wirrfuß being the closest to Muddlefoot, I suppose) in Germany, for the purpose (or so I presume) of conveying as much of that stuff to kids as the native language viewers would have gotten. In that sense, I believe conveying things like meaningful names (if it's not serious, human character names without a pun very "obviously" (to a translator) planted in there) can and should be translated to make the viewer feel more "welcome", for lack of a better term.

Just thought I'd throw in my two medals.

Yeah, there are plenty of examples where official translations translate/change names to fit the language and it's usually for the better. You've mentioned Darkwing Duck but none of the Duck Tales translations actually keep Scrooge McDuck either for example. Harry Potter names are full of puns and such and those are usually translated as well and it wouldn't be the same without it. Translating fictional names is fine.

You could argue those are a bit different since they're either books or dubs but since you can already hear the original names in the audio anyway i'd say you can get the best of both world with subs if you translate.
 

SamuraiEchidna

Active Member
You know, the fandom and toy sellers can be the worst when it comes to semantics about translating names/terms or keeping them as-is.

When I write words like Sentai, Kamen, Henshin, etc. at the forum, it's so people know what I'm talking about. I'm using the words everyone else uses commonly, even if I know what they translate into. I'd never just leave them as-is if I were the head translator/editor of a fansub group. However, even if we like these Japanese words, using them more often than their translation can be harmful. It's no wonder some fans get confused and think the untranslated words are somehow better; they think everyone prefers those words. But it's really not about preference these days, it's more about identification. How many tokusatsu fan groups are really going to call it "Masked Rider" or "Super Squadron"?

And toy sellers aren't helping either. If there is no official translation for the toku items they are selling, they'll just use the common romanizations or whatever romanization printed in English letters on the box. It's one thing for a fansub group to chose to leave certain key words untranslated, that's a translation choice. Sellers just don't know any better half the time. :shrug:

I guess all I'm saying is, you have to really decide where your standards are. You can have a translation that reflects the terms everyone else use, regardless of how wacky that might look as you read it, you can hold yourself to your own standards, or you can aim for higher standards. I try to aim for higher standards these days, but even I have room for things like forgiveness and error. And for everything else, there is softsubs. :)
 

Undrave

CRETINS! ALL OF THEM!
This would probably be the case, although a lot would depend on who translated said project. Different OT translators have different preferences. In particular, one of our two most prolific translators prefers to keep "brand names" like Kamen and Sentai intact if possible, and the other generally prefers to translate them. Since the translator does the heaviest lifting in a project like this, usually the rest of the staff tries to respect that particular translator's preferences.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule. For instance, when our main two translators are working together on a project, there's basically compromises made back and forth. Sometimes compromises are also made for editorial reasons. The Kyoryuger translator typically prefers to leave Sentai untranslated, but it was clear from the first drafts of the first episode scripts that doing so in that particular series would result in a lot of nonsense dialogue.

For instance, while an OT sub of a Showa series would probably call them Masked Riders, Showa guys making guest appearances in Heisei movies are usually called Kamen Rider [whatever]. This is usually to keep consistency with the names of the Heisei guys, who are the stars of the show. The official title of Movie Wars 2010 might include "Masked Rider Decade & Kamen Rider W," but writing it that way in actual subtitles would be horribly distracting.

When it comes to Kamen Rider it isn't all that impactful considering how often TOEI seems to completely disregard the term in the dialogue. I think of the ones I've watched only Decade, W and Fourze used the term 'Kamen Rider'. I think I heard Blade and Ryuki might have used it sometime?
 

Herman the German

Treasure Cards of the Underworld
When it comes to Kamen Rider it isn't all that impactful considering how often TOEI seems to completely disregard the term in the dialogue. I think of the ones I've watched only Decade, W and Fourze used the term 'Kamen Rider'. I think I heard Blade and Ryuki might have used it sometime?

The only time they actually said "Masked Rider" in Japan, to my knowledge, was in Kabuto referring to the "Masked Rider System"? :B
They don't say Masked since to a Japanese, the series is just "Kamen Rider", phonetically, doesn't matter how it's translated outside it. :B
 

Frumix

I don't do sense
The only time they actually said "Masked Rider" in Japan, to my knowledge, was in Kabuto referring to the "Masked Rider System"? :B
They don't say Masked since to a Japanese, the series is just "Kamen Rider", phonetically, doesn't matter how it's translated outside it. :B
I heard there was a foreign one-off character in either Black or RX that called Kotaro "Masked Rider".
 

Undrave

CRETINS! ALL OF THEM!
The only time they actually said "Masked Rider" in Japan, to my knowledge, was in Kabuto referring to the "Masked Rider System"? :B
They don't say Masked since to a Japanese, the series is just "Kamen Rider", phonetically, doesn't matter how it's translated outside it. :B

No I mean they never call the character 'Kamen Rider' except in the shows I mentionned. Wizard isn't 'Kamen Rider Wizard' and Kamen Rider OOO is just called 'OOO'. They don't say 'Kamen Rider' in the dialogue at anytime.
 

Shynilyte

Shyni
Birth was specifically referred to as "Kamen Rider Birth" on the user manual Date had, I think. Ryuki at least used the term "Rider", but I'm guessing you weren't talking about that. I'm pretty sure the full "Kamen Rider" did get used, but not as much as it did in Dragon Knight, ironically.
 

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