Over-Time vs Tv-Nihon: Which one do you prefer?

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Midori Ken

Lurker
the sign in the show is the only english spelling we've seen of it, so there's nothing to say it's wrong

So there's nothing to say that things like Aile Lock are wrong. Perfectly valid English words, but homonyms are such a tricky subject for non-native speakers.

Oh, and of course the clincher:

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I call that a major faux-pas.
 

ClimaxHeroDen-O

Ore, Sanjou!
I'm just talking about romanizations, not translations. besides, I've taken years of japanese classes. I'm not fully fluent, but I know a good deal of the language

and honestly, this is just in regards to extra letters, nothing else. besides, I'm not unwilling to go against what's popular, but I stick by my beliefs

as far as I go, once I pick a way to romanize something, I mostly use that spelling. the only times when I would change them are if I decide to

but I have my principles on how I think it should be done
 
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Lynxara

Nice post!!
besides, I've taken years of japanese classes.

If you took them in the U.S., you were taught Hepburn romanization. You talk about using macrons and that is only used in Hepburn. So you do use Hepburn romanization.

and honestly, this is just in regards to extra letters, nothing else.

You can't have been paying much attention in those Japanese classes of yours, or maybe they are only high school level? The double letters you complain about are the only accepted method of replacing a macron in the Hepburn system. u + macron becomes uu and o + macron becomes ou.

The reason why Japanese sources don't write like this is that romanizations in Japanese media, when they aren't utter nonsense, are based on the Kunrei romanization system that is taught to Japanese students learning English as a second language. Kunrei puts circumflexes over long vowels and in situations where circumflexes aren't used, they simply aren't printed.

In short, the Futo spelling is the result of someone using the Kunrei spelling and dropping the circumflex. Fuuto is the Hepburn spelling, spelled correctly without a macron. All of the doubled letters you complain about are in fact the only correct way to write these letters in Hepburn without use of macrons.

as far as I go, once I pick a way to romanize something, I mostly use that spelling.

I hope you just take Japanese for fun and don't intend to make a living at it (and if you have enough free time to spend 9 years learning a language for fun, I envy you!). With an attitude like this, you will never ever get work in most industries that employ translators. Nobody wants to work with a translator that won't stick to the licensor's requirements.
 

Lynxara

Nice post!!
There's a guy scrubbing Gekiranger who came up with a pretty interesting way of doing it. Take the root word Jan's babytalk is based on and translate that, so you get Jan saying stuff like niceynice and baddybads.

I wouldn't say that's the only way to handle it, but I think it gets across why Jan talks like that and how you're supposed to feel about it better than just transliterating it.
 

KouAidou

二番目の翻訳者
So there's nothing to say that things like Aile Lock are wrong. Perfectly valid English words, but homonyms are such a tricky subject for non-native speakers.

Oh, and of course the clincher:

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I call that a major faux-pas.

Here's another good one:

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I haven't seen any of the stuff that Over-Time has done, I am a bit more inclined towards TV Nihon, only because of the vast quantity and quality of the shows they have fansubbed over the years. Although, a majority of their content tend to be more current shows with the occasional dip into the past, but even when that happens, they have to get their hands on high quality versions of the episodes in order to sub them, and then they only give us a little bit at a time.

They are also one of the most consistently organized fansub groups in existence, which is more than can be said for most groups who start on something, get a few episodes in and just give up.

I also love the little flourishes they put into their fansubs, where the subtitles sometimes come alive onscreen, makes it a bit more exciting. And also the little bits of information they attach to certain things at certain moments, in order to better educate people here in the states who may not be completely familiar with how things are in Japan that seem rather commonplace for the Japanese, but may seem rather odd to us Americans.

I admire their dedication, and the hard work they put into what they do, although there is that part of me that hopes they get to work on more classic tokusatsu programs, like maybe finishing up DaiRanger, Zyuranger, and stuff like that. Oh well, c'est la vie.
 

Drazic

Lurker
I also love the little flourishes they put into their fansubs, where the subtitles sometimes come alive onscreen, makes it a bit more exciting. And also the little bits of information they attach to certain things at certain moments, in order to better educate people here in the states who may not be completely familiar with how things are in Japan that seem rather commonplace for the Japanese, but may seem rather odd to us Americans.

The subs "coming alive" is one of the reasons why their subs are bad though. It's pretty much the complete opposite of what a sub should be. Basically, if you notice that you're watching a show with subs, they're usually pretty bad. And flashy typesetting is one of those things that'll make you notice subs. Bad english is another one but I find that you can pretty much read over that. I just ignored the flashy subs at first as well though. I stopped watching their subs even for shows only they sub when that became impossible (Shinkenger...).
 

hmf_master

"Mr. Taxi, Taxi, Taxi 相当 즉시 즉시 즉시"
I only have one thing to say and that is subs are subs so just let it be like that and close this thread Keith
 
The way I see this thread is like how I see kids arguing over cats and dogs. Frankly, it doesn't matter which one you like because in the end your preference still won't change. This thread went ape5h!t when it got personal.

These aren't the droids you're looking for... move along.
 
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KouAidou

二番目の翻訳者
Huh? When did it go apeshit and get personal?

Lynxara said:
You can't have been paying much attention in those Japanese classes of yours, or maybe they are only high school level? The double letters you complain about are the only accepted method of replacing a macron in the Hepburn system. u + macron becomes uu and o + macron becomes ou.

And if you're "sticking to" Kunrei romanization without the macrons, I'd better see nothing but talk about Sinkenger and Syotaro and Zyuzo.

I tend to drop the u after ou compounds in names just because it seems to lead to mispronunciations by people who don't know Japanese romanization systems; they assume ou is a long-u sound. I've met too many people who know my online nick and refer to me as "Koo Adoo" when we meet IRL. :sweat:

On the other hand it kind of messes with my head a little when you drop the elongation off a word that's a minimal pair of another word based on vowel length. It's pretty easy to assume that "taro" is just a shortening of "tarou," but "Yuuki" and "Yuki" have completely different meanings and connotations.

So seeing as the double-u presents no such problems, I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving it in. The romanization systems we use as fans are basically context-based kitbashes anyway.
 
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I obviously am not fluent in Japanese, nor will I ever understand the intricacies and subtleties of the language, but frankly that doesn't really matter to me a great deal. I just applaud the fact that there are people out there who do take the time to learn the language in all its complexities and do their very best to apply that knowledge when it comes to fansubbing.

the truth of the matter is, there is a great deal of Japanese programs in existence that many of us want to watch in their entirety, and be able to understand just what the hell is going on. granted there are many who don't mind not having any subtitles, but at the same token it is still good to know what people are saying inbetween fight scenes to better understand the story being presented. the fact that there aren't more DVD companies trying to put the time, money and effort into bringing these programs stateside is a real shame. BCI Eclipse seemed like it was making great progress in that direction by releaseing Iron King and Super Robot Red Baron and even planned to release Silver Mask... until that company folded.

The fact that there are people who have taken it upon themselves to bring these shows to the people through the internet, and present them with fully legible and understandable English subtitles is a miracle in and of itself. I for one am grateful to those individuals that have taken great pains to undertake a very time consuming task.

If this were a perfect world, many of the shows we love so much would be readily available in Region 1 DVDs officially, and there would be no need for fansub groups. but, that's as maybe. as it is, there are people who have a great love for tokusatsu, and are doing what the DVD companies aren't doing... bringing the shows many of us love from the past and the present fully subtitled for us to own in our very own private collections.
 

masorick

Member
Since we're on the subject of romanization, where did TV-Nihon get jyuuken from?
Shouldn't it be either (resp. juu) or zyû (resp. zyuu)?
 

Lynxara

Nice post!!
It's the way it's written in katakana, probably. Ju (or juu) in a Hepburn system is written by combining the ji character with a yu diacritic to form a digraph. Someone who's used to translating fairly literally is probably used to writing out the yu diacritics, with the character ahead of it indicating which letter goes before the yu. So ジュ can become jyu due to basically not thinking about it too hard. The ju spelling is conventional mostly to keep foreigners from over-enunciating the y sound.

Using zyu for the names of things in Zyuranger is both a Kunrei holdover and the result of the show itself putting Zs prominently on everything (afaik). J and Z sounds in Japanese come from modifying the same row of characters, so in Japanese they're related to the point of being indistinguishable. So, whether you write jyu/juu or zyu in English isn't actually a big deal. Ideally, you'd just pick one and use it consistently, though I think most Zyuranger subs end up mixing and matching a bit based on how things are written.
 

KouAidou

二番目の翻訳者
It's not part of any actual romanization system I know, but I've seen the Jyu romanization from a lot of Japanese sources. "Jyuken" is probably the romanization Toei is/was using on their site.
 
What is the reason of those non translations btw?

It would be interesting to have the point of view of the subbers, sometimes not translating something is a form of translation.

I dont think this is laziness because just adding the sentence for the name of attacks for example, is not the hardest part to do(once an attack is translated, its ok for the whole show), so why?
 
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