My reason of why Go-Busters and Kamen Rider Wizard fail

I liked him when he wasn't a god
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Wait, what? Kida hated Beast? Why?

Basically every episode that Kida wrote that involved Beast portrayed him in a negative light and made him look, at best, superfluous/ineffective. Junko Komura was a lot better at writing his character. It's a safe guess which writer liked him and which one didn't. We don't know why although during the run of the show a couple of posters here wondered if Kida didn't want him in the story but was made to include him by Toei/Bandai
 
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So I disagree with everything in the first post. Also, I kind of want to attack it with red pen, but let's not dwell on that.

I think Go-Busters' main problem was that it was dull. I can't put my finger on precisely what made it feel dull to me - it felt dull when it was trying to appeal to older audiences, it felt dull when it was trying to appeal to younger audiences, and it only really picked up for me in the last few episodes. Which is a shame, actually, because I think it had a solid premise.

I have no idea what's meant by 'Enter acting like Loki', I can't really see much similarity between them at all except that they're both vaguely trickstery sorts.

As for Wizard, if I had to single out a main problem I'd say its seeming total terror at addressing its own story was a big problem. I don't know whether it's because they didn't know where the story was going or because they didn't think they had enough story to fill all the episodes, but it felt like the show was constantly going out of its way to avoid developing the plot.

On another level, I think the show suffered from its head writer's love affair with Haruto. I liked Haruto just fine (okay, I found him a little bland, but not offensively so), but the show often seemed to develop an obsession with Haruto being Just The Best Guy Ever, and showed this by denigrating Nitou and Mayu.

To be honest, after the Phoenix-focused episodes where we got a few five second flashbacks of Yugo, my overwhelming thought was that from the tiny amount we saw of Yugo, he seemed like the show would have been more interesting if he were the protagonist.


I mean, these factors don't necessarily account for the relative commercial failure of either series, but kids do pick up on these things, and they're not going to buy merchandise for a series that bores them.

EDIT: I should note I did enjoy Wizard well enough. Less so Go-Busters.
 
I liked him when he wasn't a god
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On another level, I think the show suffered from its head writer's love affair with Haruto. I liked Haruto just fine (okay, I found him a little bland, but not offensively so), but the show often seemed to develop an obsession with Haruto being Just The Best Guy Ever, and showed this by denigrating Nitou and Mayu.

To be honest, after the Phoenix-focused episodes where we got a few five second flashbacks of Yugo, my overwhelming thought was that from the tiny amount we saw of Yugo, he seemed like the show would have been more interesting if he were the protagonist.


I mean, these factors don't necessarily account for the relative commercial failure of either series, but kids do pick up on these things, and they're not going to buy merchandise for a series that bores them.

Kida seemed to really dislike writing for Beast (which could well be because he necessarily kept Haruto from doing ALL the heroics by himself) and Mayu, as a female Rider, was naturally going to get screwed over. I question why they came up with the Mayu storyline at all. Was it a reaction to the popularity of the actress and/or to Nadeshiko as a female Rider?

On the subject of Phoenix, I remember Lynxara saying (I quote her a lot cos she's on my Twitter ... sorry Lynx) that had Takebe been the show's producer she would have realised that he was popular with fans, and given him a bigger role in the show. Was he that well received?

I also remember that before Gaim began, one of the interviews with the production team (I can't remember who said it ... Takebe, Urobuchi or the other guy) said that Haruto had been a very "serious" hero so they wanted Kouta to be friendlier and have more comic moments. I wonder if that was a veiled way of saying that audiences didn't react well to Haruto?
 
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kids do pick up on these things, and they're not going to buy merchandise for a series that bores them.
You sure? I would have never picked up on any of that as a kid and when I was one if the toys looked cool enough I did not care where they were from.
I quote her a lot cos she's on my Twitter ... sorry Lynx
Lynxara is a girl? I thought she was a guy, sorry Lynx.:laugh:
Head writer whose last work for Toei resulted in disastrous toy sales.
What work would that be?
 
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Both

Sharp decline in ratings for both Sentai and Kamen Rider over the last few years.

Possibly the timeslot: as I understand it, the whole TV-Asahi morning lineup is having the same problem.

Maybe people have lost interest with Sentai. From what I've been told kids still love Sentai while the older fans stop caring about the franchise years ago. I hear even Gokaiger got low ratings, despite a lot of older fans enjoy the show.
 
I liked him when he wasn't a god
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Maybe people have lost interest with Sentai. From what I've been told kids still love Sentai while the older fans stop caring about the franchise years ago. I hear even Gokaiger got low ratings, despite a lot of older fans enjoy the show.

It did, although its ratings started declining more sharply in the second half - I wonder if that is because by that time they'd already gone through the most recent series?
 
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Kida seemed to really dislike writing for Beast (which could well be because he necessarily kept Haruto from doing ALL the heroics by himself) and Mayu, as a female Rider, was naturally going to get screwed over. I question why they came up with the Mayu storyline at all. Was it a reaction to the popularity of the actress and/or to Nadeshiko as a female Rider?

If I had to guess, I'd say it was a reaction to the popularity of Nadeshiko, but obviously I don't know either way. I don't think it's something Kida wanted to put in, though: I always get the impression that he kind of hated any Riders other than Haruto who dared to show up.

On the subject of Phoenix, I remember Lynxara saying (I quote her a lot cos she's on my Twitter ... sorry Lynx) that had Takebe been the show's producer she would have realised that he was popular with fans, and given him a bigger role in the show. Was he that well received?

Yeah, I remember Lynxara saying that too. I gather he was very popular, and I really enjoyed him, less because of his personality (Phoenix was pretty much just 'rargh, burning things') and more because he had a very charismatic actor.

I say that Yugo would make a better protagonist, because from the tiny amount we see of Yugo as a basically regular but also really really nice guy, it seems like he'd have been easier to relate to, had more conflict, and just been more charismatic.

I also remember that before Gaim began, one of the interviews with the production team (I can't remember who said it ... Takebe, Urobuchi or the other guy) said that Haruto had been a very "serious" hero so they wanted Kouta to be friendlier and have more comic moments. I wonder if that was a veiled way of saying that audiences didn't react well to Haruto?

It may have been, I couldn't say. In general, I'm not gigantically keen on Very Serious Protagonists, but Haruto did have comedic moments. The problem to me seemed more that his serious moments tended to feel very wallow-y and angsty, and they lacked much impact for me.

I thought Haruto was at his best when he was being less serious, either by being generally sarcastic or by playing the straight man to Nitou's more flamboyant comedy. I found Nitou's serious moments a lot more compelling than Haruto's, partly because Nitou was serious a lot less often, and partly because he has a lot more on the line, but partly because I think they were just better written.


You sure? I would have never picked up on any of that as a kid and when I was one if the toys looked cool enough I did not care where they were from.

I'm sure. Partly because if toys just looking cool was enough for most kids, Bandai would not bother looming over the shows and would just make their own line of cool henshin hero toys with no connection to a TV show. Mostly because when I was a kid, I would've picked up on that - I noticed when characters were being neglected in favour of others, and when a show wasn't developing on its plot, and I definitely noticed when a show was boring me.
 
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