Kamen Rider × Kamen Rider Gaim & Wizard The Fateful Sengoku Movie Battle Talk Up
- Thread starterBLASTMATIC
- Start date
CannibalS
Guillotine Gorilla
You should have heard the behind-the-scenes buzz. That alone is very troublesome.
TheLastBlade
Lurker
Dammit, this movie still pisses me off 
It's like Sword Art Online the movie.
I've already talked about how much it sucked and reinstating the points would add it to my beating a dead horse list.
In short, it's on the levels of All Riders, OOO/W movie, and the entire Super Hero Taisen series.
It's like Sword Art Online the movie.
I've already talked about how much it sucked and reinstating the points would add it to my beating a dead horse list.
In short, it's on the levels of All Riders, OOO/W movie, and the entire Super Hero Taisen series.
NeonZ
Active Member
You haven't actually said anything. You just keep throwing comparisons and saying that the movie is bad without ever actually talking about the movie.
TheLastBlade
Lurker
Actually I already talked about it in another topic. I already talked about the fact that, even though the wizard part was still terrible, it was the best part of the movie. Better than the dreck that lasted for an hour. The only that I liked from that part is merely for cosmetic reasons. The rest is everyone is being VERY stupid. Example: Why was every Rider fighting each other if everyone wanted peace?
NeonZ
Active Member
It's basically how the motivation of the various Sengoku warlords is often romanticized. They want an unified country and peace, but to do that they needed to defeat and take over the other warlords, rulers of their own lands, since each one had their own beliefs and people, which leads to conflict.
TheLastBlade
Lurker
The makers of the movie didn't do a good job of showing that. :redface2: Everyone was pretty miserable and we did not see much of the people outside of the armies. Especially considering all the bujin riders saying they want peace. Plus, Wizard and Fourze's faction teamed up..... So..... WTF?
Undrave
CRETINS! ALL OF THEM!
To be fair, you're not a Japanese kid who is probably studying that era in school. The metaphor is probably more transparent if you're more familiar with the representation.
NeonZ
Active Member
We did get Ranmaru's speech about how the people were suffering with the dry land, and also Ieyasu's speech about his reasons for fighting and conquest - initially to expand his borders and be able to produce more food for the starving people, and afterwards unify the entire land under him to bring peace.
Alliances are possible if the warlords share the same vision or one of them agrees to become subservient to the other. The movie didn't show how the Wizard/Fourze alliance was made. They didn't even give a name to Fourze's lord. But I don't see why it's so perplexing that some warlords could become allied while others fight against each other. Even if they all wish to unite the land and bring peace, what they'll do afterwards isn't necessarily the same, so they fight. Although, like mentioned above, I guess part of the problem is that the movie seems to assume the viewer has at least some familiarity to the period.
It also doesn't help that Bujin Gaim basically has nothing to do with all that and is just a generic villain, so the movie didn't really give much focus to warlord vs warlord battles, only showing that they existed before Bujin Gaim appeared and started defeating everyone.
TheLastBlade
Lurker
Still, remember what Micchy said? It was pretty much a different timeline. Ergo, they had the grounds to change historical facts while making references to it.
ifsoboy43
Member
And isn't that what they did? They made a mock up of the whole war, without specifically dividing the lands in the way the lands during the Sengoku period was, gave each piece of land a lord, gave some lords (or actually, just one lord in this film) motivation to fight for - peace through unification and curbing social ills in Ieyasu's case -, actually have a war, actually unite the country/ curbing social ills. There, they did change historical facts, albeit not really historically, and made references, albeit also not directly. But what they did or did not do with regards to the actual Sengoku period doesn't matter; this wasn't supposed to be a historical documentary anyway..
The point of making the people seem miserable was to give the warlords, or rather, just Ieyasu, a motivation to fight.
Are you sure? Are you forgetting the part where Ranmaru made her speech to Kaito, and there were people praying for rain, food, etc.? THAT was a display of the people outside of the armies.
The Bujin riders did not want peace. The Bujin riders had NO personality in the film and therefore could not want peace, or have any other desires for that matter.
They formed an alliance, for each other's advantages, because they see benefits from working with someone who share the same ideologies. Why fight someone you can call a friend? Alliances work even in the modern day. So how is that a 'WTF' moment at all?
From what I can tell, you don't even know what you expect, or would like to see from the film. Everything you've stated you want to see, or do not understand the film, either has been explained to you, or is in the film. But... you probably turned a blind eye towards them. Heck, you might even be criticising this film not because you have a solid basis to, but rather simply because you want to. Yes, we noticed it when you said you have a poor opinion of the movie the first time you said it. You don't have to repeat it over and over again.
My best friend and I both watch the movie last Thursday. She enjoy it a lot despite not seeing Wizard and only two episodes of Gaim. She wanted to watch it badly because of the Rider lock seeds. I personally like to watch a good amount of a show before jumping into a Rider movie. I seen the movie at least twice which is enough for me.
TheLastBlade
Lurker
Well yeah, BECAUSE I HATED THE MOVIE. Though, I can see some points you've made. Though.... I don't know what you're talking about the first one.... That was in response to the fact that they doing their own thing. I do remember that people were in a crappy position..... That didn't stop it from me not giving a **** because it was mostly focused on Kouta and Micchi's side of the story. You're right, the Bujin Riders don't have much of a personality, therefore, no one would care about them and could've been cut from the movie entirely. I asked the whole "why couldn't anyone else made a peaceful alliance" because of the fact that only ****ing Fourze's and Wizard's faction was functional at that point. If all the bland riders wanted peace (at least that one guy who talked about that.....), why the hell were they fighting in the first place? I get that they MIGHT have a different philosophy, but again, the movie never talked about that..... Except maybe the lords, but the only one we're giving much time to is Ieyasu. So that was a waste of everyone's time... Hey, I won't pretend that I haven't been posting a million comments on how much this movie sucked.
ifsoboy43
Member
Look at it from a 'behind the scenes' point of view rather than a 'plothole' point of view then. Sure, only Wizard and Fourze's alliance was functional, but was there a need to show much of the other riders, when they were going to be eliminated and removed from the movie in a matter of minutes, or maybe seconds? Almost every single one of the extra bujin riders appeared for less than a few minutes, and none of the other lords even appeared. So there isn't a need for the writer to establish the rest of the lands since they aren't the focal point of the film. The writers chose to focus on Ieyasu in the film, thus only characterizing him and establishing the background of his land.
And when you factor in the time limit of the film, it makes it even more impossible for the writer to establish the rest of the lands. 1.5h is pretty much the standard of every Super Hero Taisen film. Half hour of the movie was accorded to Wizard, and another half hour was accorded to Gaim to set the background of the imaginary Sengoku period, before the last half hour of the team-up. With only half an hour to set the tone and background, it's not possible or feasible to squeeze in the establishment of the other lords or people of other lands. Not to mention the establishment will be half-assed since they don't have enough time. Doing so will only make the plot even worse, and rushed.
BLASTMATIC
Lurker
I can see where your coming from
NeonZ
Active Member
The Bujin Riders are extensions of their lords' ambitions (which is why Bujin Gaim was odd by being born out of nowhere, rather than from a warlord). So, the reason the lords had for fighting was the same one as the Riders'. They were fighting to unite the land because each warlord thought that they should be the ones uniting the country and bring peace. We don't know what their differences were, but that's made clear enough in the movie with the brief scenes for the warlords who weren't Ieyasu. And, that's all that's necessary considering how small their role was. They were only there to establish the setting. The only warlord with actual focus as a character is Ieyasu.
I really don't see why you talk about that like it were a huge problem. In Gaim tv itself, Yggdrazil seems to have made some arrangements with the governments to take care of Zawame city, and yet we've only been told about that recently, when the government inquired them about Demushu's attack, without any information about how it was done, who did it or anything else.
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