I'm Really sick of Tendou and Tsukasa Hate

[bleachjoj]

I always thought Tsukasa was a total douche, but that's the way I approach things. I expect heroes to be "nice", and if they're not I will dislike them, even if the story gives them a good reason to be the way they are.

I do like Tendou, he's so over the top I found him funny. However, he was still a dick a lot of the time, and I can understand why others don't like him.

I also think a lot of the reason they get hate is because they're seen as "too powerful" and people consider it bad writing/they don't want to watch a hero who can easily win any conflict. Takumi's a jerk yet he doesn't get the kind of hate they do.

I accept Tsukasa being a jerk because you can tell he was widely insecure. And like Tendou it wasn't taken too seriously. Tendou got on my nerves sometimes but none of the characters took his God complex seriously.

And I don't like Takumi not because he was a jerk but because he was a sullen emo jerk.

 

[ChiPsiUp]

I don't know how many people are in my boat, but I like Tsukasa, but really dislike Tendou. That being said, I can understand why people hate on Tsukasa so much.


THE PROBLEM WITH TSUKASA/DECADE

It's quite simple, really. Decade as a show made the terrible decision to visit other rider worlds, but they did NOT get the original rider actors back. And further more, they made a habit of constantly having Decade one-up the previous riders. People did NOT like seeing Decade going around making fun of, beating up, or otherwise just showing up their favorite riders of years past. Even "AR" versions of them with slightly different names and completely different actors.

The worst victim of this was Kuuga, who was demoted from bad-ass rider who revived the whole KR franchise in the Heisei era, to Tsukasa's goofy and often ineffective sidekick.

Speaking for myself personally, I didn't watch Decade until recently, and I've watched very few of the early Heisei Rider series, so I was able to enjoy the show without feeling too much rage.


THE PROBLEM WITH TENDOU/KABUTO

This is going to need a bit more explaining. My problem with Tendou is that he feels like a Mary Sue. The writers of Kabuto seem to be in love with him, they write him as some kind of perfect superman and everything always works out for him because he's Tendou Souji. Maybe the audience wasn't supposed to take him seriously, but the writers seem to take him seriously. The plot virtually NEVER lets him lose at ANYTHING.

Take for example, when he first meets Drake. They get into a competition to see who can pick up the most girls. Drake is a womanizer and a flirt, and he manages to get a lot of girls. Tendou doesn't do anything, and shows up empty handed. However, when the girls Drake brought see Tendou, they immediately flock over to him, and he wins the contest. Why? Because he's Tendou Fuckin' Souji.

Yes, if we take a step back and look at it, we can think of it as silly and comedic. Why did Tendou manage to walk into a hospital and become a doctor instantly? Cause he's Tendou Souji. Why did Tendou become a high ranking police officer in a few days? Cause he's Tendou Souji. Why is he now a high ranking member of ZECT, a SECRET organization? Cause he's Tendou Souji.

But here's the problem. We can't take it all as a joke. The plot takes Tendou too seriously, because Tendou is the main rider. He gets all the power ups, he wins all the fights, he's the invincible superstar. The writers don't even explain half the power ups that show up, they just "appear" because he's Tendou Souji.

"The hyper zector has been destroyed."
"No, I have it right here."
"That's impossible, we all saw it blown up!"
"No, I am Tendou Souji. I was always meant to have this, so time travel/fate/destiny etc. It is now mine."
"That makes no sense!"

"You think you're so tough now cause you have that Hyper Zector, why don't you try fighting us without it."
"I have no reason to agree, but I will do so anyhow."
"Ha ha, we got you now!"
"No, you see, I also have this super powerful sword that just came out of the sky."
"Where the hell did that come from?"
"I'm Tendou Souji. I'm constantly evolving."

We are given a contrast with Kagami. Kagami, who is the everyman. The hard working guy who trys hard, wants to protect people. The guy who fails over and over but gets back up to try again. And this contrast of the two would be great if Kagami was the main rider and Tendou was the secondary rider. Having a jerk/too cool for school secondary rider is pretty standard for KR. But Tendou is the MAIN rider!

What does this mean for Kabuto as a whole? It means that Kagami NEVER gets to beat Tendou. We never get to see the triumph of hard work over the super boy who gets everything because he was born awesome. It means that Tendou gets all the new toys. The hyper zector, the big sword thingy. Kagami never got any power ups after he finally got to be Gattack. We should count ourselves lucky that Kagami didn't get killed, or written out of the plot, or ignored by the time the finale rolled around, like EVERY OTHER RIDER ON THE SHOW.

We even had a story arc with Tendou going around beating up all the other riders and taking away their devices, because he was that badass and no one else deserves to be a rider. And were we supposed to cheer for this guy? Is this really our main hero, the guy we want to save the day?

 

[Sentaifan'07 Xman]

My problem with Tendou is that he is full of himself. He cares for no one except the girl. He is also way to over powered. The fact he can take away other riders zectors to power himself up is such nonsense.

Yeah, I guess that was probably the main reason why there was a lot of negative comments about Tendou's character. But for me, it was somewhat average.

DCD was just badly written. He was pretty cool at times, and then all of the sudden in the same episodes BAM he was a complete douche bag. The KR Blade episodes were prime examples of this.

Yeah, but that was probably why he was somewhat cooler for everyone to like and dislike. But, that's just me taking. Me?! I guess I'll let him slide. Bu still at least he was a better douche bag unlike a certain treasure-hungry Rider thief, whose name that I can't say out loud.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

You can justify it all you want, but that won't change an unlikable character. I need to root for the hero, I need to want him to succeed. By making them inconsiderate, arrogant, and rude individuals with virtually no redeeming qualities beyond "Oh yeah, I need to save people because... I dunno," I just cannot care. Vegeta worked because he was secondary. I HATED him in the Cell Saga, but I had Goku, Gohan, and Trunks to take the majority of the story, therefore balancing out Vegeta being a creep. You don't get that with Tendou and Tsukasa. The writers WANTED Gattack and Kuuga to be a balance for them, but it doesn't work when they're everything but story fodder. In the two episodes in which Gattack got any recognition, all I thought was "...Wait, why isn't he the focus, exactly?" I shouldn't have to think that.
It's storytelling 101. You never make your characters powerful enough to have no threat, and you never alienate your characters entirely from the audience.

 

[Mr. Rhythmic]

No ****. I'm just saying that people maybe judged a little too quickly, and I would like to get the well articulated opinion of someone who feels differently. I'm trying to provoke a legitimate discussion. But thanks for being unconstructive.

Well, I just did, so you can stop snapping at people now.

 

[FreedomR8G6B1]

There's nothing wrong with either of them, they're pretty good characters...however...I still have to proclaim that...

"Tsukasa is the Heavens itself...Tendou just walks it."

 

[MattComix]

Okay, I'll throw in.

I would have to say that even if there is a solid rationale for their behavior in the story that doesn't necessarily make them actually anymore entertaining to watch nor anymore worthy of being considered a good Kamen Rider protagonist. Or even a good anti-hero version of one. Besides a superhero story is ideally not the place you got to if you just want to see assholes punching other assholes.

Maybe for some they work if that viewer just really wants live vicariously through the idea of being the "badass" with Rider powers with zero obligation to being a nice guy. But that's kind of point missing for a super or henshinhero story and there are other places to go for that kind of fantasy.

Also to be perfectly blunt, this whole "if I had super powers I'd just **** up everybody and do what I wanted because that's what'd happen in real life!" thing is such cynical cliche crap. If no human being in real life were capable of thinking beyond themselves in the capacity of saving others then there would be no firemen, there would be no rescue workers, etc. Heroism is not just some lazy genre conceit that writers came up with. It is something that happens in real life just like all the dark awful stuff in real life. We do of course surely wish it happened more often. Yeah we want our heroes to relateable but they also need to be aspirational.

But in all fairness both Kabuto and Decade have a ton of other problems besides their not so likable protags. At least Tendou was consistent. Tsukasa is kind of all over the place and his transitions from one side to the other and back again make about as much sense as anything else in Decade. All that said though while I have been blunt in my opinion I'm not trying to say that anyone is bad for enjoying those characters so I hope that's not how it's coming off.

 

[cypsiman2]

I've not seen Decade so I can't comment on Tsukasa.

I have seen Kabuto though, and my journey on what I thought of Tendou was an interesting; at first I thought he was ridiculously hilarious, then for a time I found him insufferably annoying as the show went way too far on the Tendou worship, but in the end I actually rather liked him; the main things I liked about him was how proactive he was as a Kamen Rider, actively searching for and dealing with the Worm threat, and whenever he encountered someone who was a better cook than him, he had nothing but the utmost respect for them. The things that annoyed me were when Tendou displayed super competence in areas that he had no interest in, that were superfluous to his character; stuff like being able to infiltrate any organization and outdo anyone at their chosen specialty no matter how obscure or microscopic they may have been. It comes off as incredibly insecure, like the writers aren't confident that Tendou will be able to stand on his own merits and so they go to excess on trying to push just how amazing Tendou is. By contrast, the Hyper and Perfect Zecters, while still bull, were more issues with the surrounding writing than a failing in the writing of Tendou's character.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

I would have to say that even if there is a solid rationale for their behavior in the story that doesn't necessarily make them actually anymore entertaining to watch nor anymore worthy of being considered a good Kamen Rider protagonist. Or even a good anti-hero version of one. Besides a superhero story is ideally not the place you got to if you just want to see assholes punching other assholes.

Him being a Kamen Rider has nothing to do with what kind of protagonist he can or cannot be, I am just pointing out some observations I made that I feel make the character more complex and while that might not "justify" the character or whatever, I feel like one could at least appreciate the writers attempting something different for the franchise, even if it didn't entirely work out. I feel the effort should still be respected.

Maybe for some they work if that viewer just really wants live vicariously through the idea of being the "badass" with Rider powers with zero obligation to being a nice guy. But that's kind of point missing for a super or henshinhero story and there are other places to go for that kind of fantasy.

http://www.popcrunch.com/asshole-comics-superheroes/

Also to be perfectly blunt, this whole "if I had super powers I'd just **** up everybody and do what I wanted because that's what'd happen in real life!" thing is such cynical cliche crap. If no human being in real life were capable of thinking beyond themselves in the capacity of saving others then there would be no firemen, there would be no rescue workers, etc. Heroism is not just some lazy genre conceit that writers came up with. It is something that happens in real life just like all the dark awful stuff in real life. We do of course surely wish it happened more often. Yeah we want our heroes to relateable but they also need to be aspirational.

Thats not what I'm getting at, its not about him being a "badass", I'm saying that Tsukasa at least deviates from the typical "do-gooder" type, he wasn't really an anti hero but is easily the most "chaotic-neutral" Rider. I just feel it was a nice change of pace for a Rider. And as far as his douchebaggery goes, he doesnt just have 1 set of rider powers, hes got the power of 10. Hes literally the strongest Kamen Rider ever, bar none and throughout the series he only gets stronger.

how could you not at the bare minimum be at least a little full of yourself if you could honestly own up to that kind of title. Im not saying that every hero should be like this, but I never minded Tsukasa being the way he is because he honestly has every right to be.

The way I see it, if you talk big and cant back it up; you're a douchebag. But, if you talk big and can live up to your own hype, thats just impressive.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

Personally, I think Tendou's just been traumatised to the point that even he himself feels as isolated from society as Hiyori did, which is why I thought their relationship was interesting. She's the only person he could relate to, even if it's not really his sister, but its close enough. Honestly, I don't get why people complain about him being good at things even professionals have trouble with. I actually know people like that. They do exist, people with multiple talents, but its for the sake of the show that they show it to you at an exaggerated level, because hey, kid's show, he's gotta be cool.

On Tsukasa's case, I completely understand. At this point, to date, Decade's probably the strongest Kamen Rider to exist. Plus, the guy's not even a good guy to begin with. His portrayal often swayed a bit, like Natsumi's laughing pressure point and him goofing off sometimes, I mean a guy with such a smile, sometimes you wonder if they can really do bad. Which is a nice touch to be honest. You only see his moment of doing good the entire series, all the way until he actually decides to do bad. He's a what if Inui Takumi just decided to screw everyone else and actually pick a fight.

Riders aren't meant to be heroes that everyone can like, as I understand. I don't think every Rider can be that guy that fakes a smile for others sake. It may have been that case in the Showa era, but realise that reality is pretty much key here. No one goes through those things and come out the same. Tsukasa might not be a Kaizo Ningen, but he might as hell want to shoot himself sometimes with all the troubles in his life and so much power can't fix it.