How Would You Do Kamen Rider in the USA? [Or General West]

TheWhiteCleaver

Wits as sharp as the blade
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1eRQWL2quo"]Vlog: How Would You Do Kamen Rider in the USA? - YouTube[/ame]

I just watched TJOmega's response to the question and it kind of left me thinking how they would do it, he brings up alot of good points but I have an idea alot of people will differentiate, so... Ideas? :3

I would argue that you can touch Heisei and you dont HAVE to reinvent Ichigo and some other stuff, etc.
 

SamuraiEchidna

Active Member
I do agree that a movie would be the best way to introduce the franchise, especially with a big hollywood budget.

I think I'd probably use one of the better stories from Kamen Rider Spirits, and if there is room, squeeze in a few more elements from the TV show. The suit would be slightly similar to The First/The Next's Rider suit, but still similar to the one from the show. An in-between design, if you will. The actor playing Ichigo/Hongo would need to be some kind of asian. If it can't be a Japanese American, that's fine. I don't think audiences will judge too harshly as long as it's some kind of asian and the roll is done right. I mostly want that considering Kamen Rider is a JAPANESE hero. To me, it feels appropriate to cast it that way and then make reference to it in the movie. I was willing to give live action Goku a free pass because he's not really a human, he's suppose to be an alien. But when I saw how The Last Airbender was cast, I think that went too far.

And I know this last one MIGHT be going too far, but... Would it be impossible to have Hiroshi Fujioka cameo, at the very least? He was in that one American movie; Ghost Warrior a.k.a. Swordkill according to Wikipedia.
 

FreedomR8G6B1

New Member
Oh...the video question that Apollo Z Hack asked the viewers a while back.:sweat:

I was gonna make a video on this. All the responses I've seen so far in regards to this were interesting. These were some of the things that popped into my mind:

-A Lab Escape Introduction / Time Skip (a la Stronger...especially where he meets Tackle)

-Rider Support Team (Mix of Local Police/Shounen Riders/Rider Club/Fuuto Irregulars/ZECTroopers)

-Mercenary Unit of Bad Guys consisting of Spider/Bat/Snake/Lizard/Jaguar and their leader given the codename "Shinigami"

-Ishinomori References


PS: To TJ Omega...

"Hey, I liked a good guy Ryuga stint. Beats getting blown up by Diend and Decade several times."
 
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Bigdog

New Member
Me? I'd heavily broaden the scope to how Ishinomori wanted the series to be.

Think Spirits, Nikita, Haywire and Nolan's Batman wrapped into one with a dose of Raimi's Spider-Man. You can whine about it possibly "sucking" but similar series that have been adapted with similar themes have done well here, notably Spiderman and Batman.

And man, having the first two villains of the franchise being of a spider and bat would be an awfully awesome great wink and laugh at the tone of the two reboots, especially Bat's voice.....:laugh:

The way the original show was, all it needs is a proper direction and globalization of the Showa series of Riders that due to the budget and lack of able foreign actors was able to do an international kind of story.

So much story to do a trilogy of the First two Riders, and then intro V3. If it has to be set in the Cold War ala First Class , do it with gusto and make it an era piece. Otherwise, update the concept and the suit.

Iron Man didn't have the same suit in his first issue nor did Spider-Man or Captain America or Thor. Just keep enough of it for nostalgia's sake, but make it open for the mainstream audience to enjoy. Have in mind that no one knew of Iron Man either, so it's not hard.

If the original comics and Spirits were to be published because of the film, that's even better and hell, why not original comics around the characters?

Since it has shows to adapt to low budget series, it would be a guaranteed success both on the Silver and small screens granted its tied in or they cross over.....

Casting wouldn't really matter other than the first rider. The other ones can be different origins, where my idea of international reduxes comes equally into play.
 

Nnnkingston

Altair
I think the best way to bring Kamen Rider to the west is an original Rider. Power Rangers pretty much has the adaption of "wacky-source-material" vibe cornered, and Kamen Rider wouldn't be taken seriously then. It has to be built from the ground up to be a hero who just happens to be a Kamen/Masked Rider.
 

Glamador

Member
It would need to be a reboot of some kind. Not necessarily any particular series, make up a new one. Or perhaps a movie. You couldn't sell the original Kamen Rider to today's market as is.
 

Shogun_Master

Why is every good TV show Cancelled
Generally speaking, Saban had to fight hard for 8 years to get Power Rangers made in the first place & it's the only show of it's kind to survive in the US, even if it is a laughing stock to about 90% of the populace.

The main problem faced is that Kamen Rider incorporates certain aspects that hit both above & below the belt of it's intended demographic for the US- the fighting is too violent for smaller children, yet the humor is too silly for older kids. It might work in that formula if it was a cartoon, but being live action kind of hurts it.

If I was to bring it over, I'd pick a season with the least rediculous looking suits (generally Kabuto, W, or Wizard) and craft an entirely new show around it while keeping the basic core of what Kamen Rider is, using the other series' to craft an expanded universe as the show went on. I'd also probably pull a tone similar to Buffy the Vampire Slayer- the only similarly made series that has worked out in the US. Even then, thereks no real guarantee that a "ripoff of Power Rangers" or "Ironman" or whatever other conclusions people may draw would work.
 

SamuraiEchidna

Active Member

If I was to bring it over, I'd pick a season with the least rediculous looking suits (generally Kabuto, W, or Wizard) and craft an entirely new show around it while keeping the basic core of what Kamen Rider is

Just to clarify, this is NOT about which series should be made into a Power Rangers-style or Westernized adaption. This is about a challenge posted by Apollo Z Hack and TJ Omega's (and anyone else's) response. AZH specifically asked how a movie would be done; no Japanese footage, no adaptions, no TV series, nothing like that.

I really do think an American or Western movie really is the way to go. It would be interesting to see what comes of it, if anything at all. I'd hate to see it give rise to more adaptions of the Japanese shows or even Cartoons that miss the point of Kamen Rider or the Western movie based off it entirely, but that's the risk you run.
 

Bigdog

New Member
Just to clarify, this is NOT about which series should be made into a Power Rangers-style or Westernized adaption. This is about a challenge posted by Apollo Z Hack and TJ Omega's (and anyone else's) response. AZH specifically asked how a movie would be done; no Japanese footage, no adaptions, no TV series, nothing like that.

I really do think an American or Western movie really is the way to go. It would be interesting to see what comes of it, if anything at all. I'd hate to see it give rise to more adaptions of the Japanese shows or even Cartoons that miss the point of Kamen Rider or the Western movie based off it entirely, but that's the risk you run.

Or it could have the opposite effect and we could get something equivalent to Marvel's great luck. I honestly want to see a Kikaider or Gavan film if not a reboot of Guyver, which for these three would excel with Hollywood effects.

I honestly want to see a live action Devilman more than anything, even if it's Twilight-ified. It would not be that hard to do because both the anime and the manga have that sort of twist mixed with Spiderman. Some kid gets the power of the occult and becomes the apple of the lady's eye whilst fighting evil. Even the theme song is awesome.

And then the occult theme from the manga would be kibble to Underworld fans like me and the action....:buttrock:

It's like a moving metal poster.
 

Ivanhobe

The Extraordinary Fan(boy)
If the challenge is to make Kamen Rider in america rather doing an adaptation, then i have 3 Words:

Kamen Rider G3

I have only watched like half of Agito, but so far i think that what they did to G3 is a great approach to a rider and one that would work with american audiences.

Basically have some unknown monster threat and have the special police unit that most deal with them, the bulk of the show would lie in the police drama aspect and the investigation of these cases. In a way the show could follow a similar formula to the one of Smallville during the first few seasons, most of the episode would be spent developing plot and character drama and G3 would only be deployed at the end.

This formula could work quite well with a TV series, though it could also be adapted to a movie. The only problem is that by this point the show would be its own thing and very little of Kamen Rider would remain.
 

Bigdog

New Member
If the challenge is to make Kamen Rider in america rather doing an adaptation, then i have 3 Words:

Kamen Rider G3

I have only watched like half of Agito, but so far i think that what they did to G3 is a great approach to a rider and one that would work with american audiences.

Basically have some unknown monster threat and have the special police unit that most deal with them, the bulk of the show would lie in the police drama aspect and the investigation of these cases. In a way the show could follow a similar formula to the one of Smallville during the first few seasons, most of the episode would be spent developing plot and character drama and G3 would only be deployed at the end.

This formula could work quite well with a TV series, though it could also be adapted to a movie. The only problem is that by this point the show would be its own thing and very little of Kamen Rider would remain.
Or rather, it'd be Kamen Rider for America.

If I were to take from the Heisei, it'd be Kuuga with a OOO mix, but neither at the same time.

Like Grimm , the series would focus on the supernatural aspects of the world , particularly in its ancient civilization aspect. The belt, it would be the focus of the power and also a curse that evolves on the wearer's desires and is integrated into his body.

Thrown into a war between a horde of the undead and the infamous versus an unassuming and unprepared human race ,the Rider has to decide to use his powers for good while the evil powers of a demon eat him from within and try to commit atrocities.
 

SamuraiEchidna

Active Member
Or it could have the opposite effect and we could get something equivalent to Marvel's great luck. I honestly want to see a Kikaider or Gavan film if not a reboot of Guyver, which for these three would excel with Hollywood effects.

I honestly want to see a live action Devilman more than anything, even if it's Twilight-ified.

I do like that kind of thinking, and despite my last post, I am an optimist. I do believe that, if done right, Kamen Rider could have the same level of success in America. We just have to treat it the same way as American superheroes and their movies. If we can connect the dots that way, people will love it rather than dismiss it as a "Power Rangers rip off" or something, as many of us fear.

Also, I am just going to assume you know about Japan's terrible attempt at a Live Action Devilman. I saw it, and it sucks even by American standards... If anything, I do agree that Devilman deserves better. Perhaps a second attempt that does it right.
 

Bigdog

New Member
I do like that kind of thinking, and despite my last post, I am an optimist. I do believe that, if done right, Kamen Rider could have the same level of success in America. We just have to treat it the same way as American superheroes and their movies. If we can connect the dots that way, people will love it rather than dismiss it as a "Power Rangers rip off" or something, as many of us fear.

Also, I am just going to assume you know about Japan's terrible attempt at a Live Action Devilman. I saw it, and it sucks even by American standards... If anything, I do agree that Devilman deserves better. Perhaps a second attempt that does it right.

The biggest wall is that. Many fans and some nonfans would want to play the exotic factor rather than take what made the series such an awesome hit and rebuild it into a success. Or rather, they want it to be a literal retelling. And frankly, that wouldn't slide with today's audience. Sure it shouldn't be a radical redesign, but it shouldn't be a lifeless duplicate that many deplore in Hollywood's current state that looks like a cartoon character.

Real design would need to be applied to the series alongside dedication and creative criticism to make it palatable for international audiences, and better yet, we don't have to devolve to whitewashing to do so. The unfortunate implications is that at best, the main Rider would have to be racially ambiguous or have assumed biracial status, but that should not be the thing to hold it back because I'd soon rather have talent than casting on the basis of their appearances. To balance it however , the second Rider should be Caucasian and overall, inflecting on the global character of the world its set in.

As I recall, I barely knew of Iron Man [though I began to like him on my own] , much less touched Thor because it looked corny as sin. And the Hulk? You can forget about that. Now because of their films, I got interested in those series and I've seen all of the former's films and will see Thor 2. I completely hated Captain America as well until I touched the Ultimates comics and the film. The way Thor was handled as a film was probably the most novel and greatest ways to adapt it.

I won't say much of Spider-Man or X-Men because that was my childhood with Batman, to where I avoided West , and those were fairly popular on their own merits. Spider-Man balanced the nostalgia, but was also a major modernization to it while the Nolan Trilogy just sucked me in since I loved TAS.

I saw some of the footage of the Devilman film and heard about its plot , and I'm actually glad I lost it. It sounds like a pile of garbage to me and more often, it feels like GINO did for Godzilla. I'm ticked that pile of crap was released here rather than the first anime series because I don't want to touch the bootleg with horrible subtitles and because it seems cool.

If I knew some people and I got a script behind it, I'd love to take a crack at a modernization of the "Devilman" series by any means. Right now, I'm in love with the manga version of the story which I've heard is what Go Nagai liked over the anime ,so he used it for the basis for the various following incarnations and OVAs.

After watching Hotel Transylvania, I've gotten back into my monster/horror genre loving roots and it just strikes me that the concept and characters of the series as revolutionary, alongside the occult theme. The way the occult aspect was tackled reminded me much of my other favorite series of Buffy, which I seen every morning before grade school on FX.

And thinking about Devilman reminds me of what I felt watching Power Rangers and Guyver or Kamen Rider for the first time. And frankly, it's a series that cannot be possibly screwed up as it has the best themes in flux right now.

Not really sure what would do the manga more justice: a series on par of The Walking Dead or a film straight on. The only misfortune is that a proper Devilman series would require a semi decent budget to undergo, much more than a Masked Rider film might for its creatures. And the license makes it somewhat out of reach..... someday I guess.:disappoin

----

I've never seen Kikaider , so I won't say much other than that it seems like a neat concept as well and frankly if done right would be a great addition to the Marvel film universe. A Japanese World War II weapon put into storage gets awakened first in the 70's and finally the modern era? What's not to like about that? Plus its one of the inspirations of Robocop alongside Gavan.
 
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Shogun_Master

Why is every good TV show Cancelled
I'm not that hard to understand, am I?

I simply stated that it would be good to start with a season that has the least bizarre or laughable suit in order to ease people in, then expand to using other season's Riders in an expanded universe as the story continued.

As far as I'm concerned Kabuto, W & Wizard have the most normal, easiest to digest suits. Probably Kabuto, since it's the only one of the three that actually carries the original bug theeme, so it'd be easier to tie into the original.

EDIT: Whether we get a movie or a series is all relative to me, although I'm not sure if you could just make a superhero film for a superhero who isn't known in the US. Every time people try that, or worse, completely make up a superhero themselves, it never seems to end well. I'm not sure you could do a movie without establishing the TV show first...
 
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Sentaifan'07 Xman

"Let's DRIVING!!!!!"
Well, after viewing this v-log, I would have to agree on some of the arguments that TJOmega pointed out. But, as a supporter of the Showa-era, I think that if lets say that I was working for a entertainment company like Adness or whatever, I'd personally focus on how am I going to use some of the ideas of the earlier generation of the Kamen Riders and shift it to how a US adaptation should look like in television. Now Dragon Knight had that same idea, but I think it was the rushing part of bringing back the Ventaran rider at the end that killed it. Now if I were to adapt some of the heisei-era riders, I should focus on half of the earlier incarnations like Blade, Faiz, Agito and Kabuto because they seem to bring out that essence of what the Showa-era had in mind, but only different perspective. Now shows like W and OOO, they pretty much explained how the technology in the Rider's power actually worked and which was necessary to use in combat. Now for storywise, I think it should focus how well the Rider can think and act for himself as a human being and a masked warrior bent on fulfilling his duties of protecting the world. Not like what was going on with Den-O, Kiva, Decade, and Fourze. And one final thought....I should get some writers who have less-experience with the franchise and hire the ones that do as like their chief supervisors rather than just some fanboys who don't have a life because it really brings out the originality of the show's concept.

That's about it.
 
If the challenge is to make Kamen Rider in america rather doing an adaptation, then i have 3 Words:

Kamen Rider G3

I have only watched like half of Agito, but so far i think that what they did to G3 is a great approach to a rider and one that would work with american audiences.

Basically have some unknown monster threat and have the special police unit that most deal with them, the bulk of the show would lie in the police drama aspect and the investigation of these cases. In a way the show could follow a similar formula to the one of Smallville during the first few seasons, most of the episode would be spent developing plot and character drama and G3 would only be deployed at the end.

This formula could work quite well with a TV series, though it could also be adapted to a movie. The only problem is that by this point the show would be its own thing and very little of Kamen Rider would remain.
I think if you worked in Agito as well to it I think it could keep some of the Rider spirit. You'd be left with the mysterious monster threat. The police trying their best and then finally a mysterious entity that fights equally with the monsters.
 

Toku Prime

Well-Known Member
I'm broadly agreeing with Metal Symphony here. When Kamen Rider comes to America, it gets judged as a superhero franchise. A superhero franchise that no-one has ever heard of. Yes, top-level Marvel/DC fare get blockbuster movies that are big successes. But for every Dark Knight trilogy, there's an endless list of Phantoms, Green Hornets, Tank Girls, Judge Dredds, Daredevils, Supergirls, Catwomen... A successful history on TV or in print means nothing. You need to be incredibly popular already or you've no chance of getting a blockbuster budget, and if you don't have that kind of money then history indicates your superhero movie will sink like a stone regardles of how good or bad it may be.

You want an English-language Kamen Rider franchise? Buy the license and commission a Ben 10 style cartoon for a major kids network. Cartoons tend to do better than live action kids shows. Yes it must have gimmicks, and a boat-load of toys to sell. Roleplay toys and individual action figures tend to sell better in the PR franchise than they do in the SS franchise. In fact, more Ranger figures get sold than Megazords in the US. It's a preference of American kids (or rather, the parents buying for them). So probably go with lots of forms and weapons and ditch any ideas about mini-mecha or 13 different riders or whatever. That's the only way the show survives in Japan, do you think removing the toys would increase it's chances of running elsewhere? Of course not. Spend about 20 years selling sh!+ to kids, and if your bits of plastic are consistently in the top ten highest selling to little boys, they might just let you make a live action Michael Bay movie.
 

SamuraiEchidna

Active Member
[HIDE]I'm broadly agreeing with Metal Symphony here. When Kamen Rider comes to America, it gets judged as a superhero franchise. A superhero franchise that no-one has ever heard of. Yes, top-level Marvel/DC fare get blockbuster movies that are big successes. But for every Dark Knight trilogy, there's an endless list of Phantoms, Green Hornets, Tank Girls, Judge Dredds, Daredevils, Supergirls, Catwomen... A successful history on TV or in print means nothing. You need to be incredibly popular already or you've no chance of getting a blockbuster budget, and if you don't have that kind of money then history indicates your superhero movie will sink like a stone regardles of how good or bad it may be.

You want an English-language Kamen Rider franchise? Buy the license and commission a Ben 10 style cartoon for a major kids network. Cartoons tend to do better than live action kids shows. Yes it must have gimmicks, and a boat-load of toys to sell. Roleplay toys and individual action figures tend to sell better in the PR franchise than they do in the SS franchise. In fact, more Ranger figures get sold than Megazords in the US. It's a preference of American kids (or rather, the parents buying for them). So probably go with lots of forms and weapons and ditch any ideas about mini-mecha or 13 different riders or whatever. That's the only way the show survives in Japan, do you think removing the toys would increase it's chances of running elsewhere? Of course not. Spend about 20 years selling sh!+ to kids, and if your bits of plastic are consistently in the top ten highest selling to little boys, they might just let you make a live action Michael Bay movie.[/HIDE]

So, to break down what you're saying into simpler terms...
If we've never seen it or loved it before, if it was never really popular or doesn't have some kind of nostalgic history with us, then no movie.

That is an understandable outlook. Stranger things have happened, but I'll respect and humor what you are saying for now. We all ready have some issues of the Kamen Rider Spirits manga available, if I'm not mistaken. But if we need something bigger, as in a cartoon, then it really needs to be an anime. The producers in Japan would know how to make it since they understand Kamen Rider the best. From there, the English premiere would need to be hyped and played to as large an audience as possible. The anime itself would need to be amazing, but at the same time, the anime would need to have just as much hype and popularity in America as DBZ or Gundam or what have you.

Capturing that kind of success would be like trying to capture lightning in a bottle. The anime could turn out just as meh/boring/bland as The First/The Next. Sure, in theory, it would be easier to appeal to American audiences and hype it up if the cartoon was an American/Western cartoon. However, I just don't trust that. I honestly think the company involved would miss the point of Kamen Rider entirely. And my biggest fear is that audiences would fall in love with this American take on Kamen Rider so much that they wouldn't accept any live action version that's radically different. I'd be like the relationship between DBZ and Dragonball Evolution, only in reverse.

But I'd still give it a chance. Again, stranger things have happened, and for all I know a Kamen Rider cartoon from ANY country could turn out great.
 

kokowaks

Member
i do agree with the guy saying a cartoon adaptation would have a better reception with the younger audience than a live action series that would just have people bashing as a power ranger ripoff...

for the franchise to be accepted into the mainstream world, it would be best if they make it more of a tragic hero/grim-dark setting with the likes of the dark knight films than rather go with the typical superhero film like spider-man/x-men. with the stunts, effects, fight & bike scenes of "THE FIRST" we already have great tools for a mainstream movies.

being accepted mainstream is probably the best for the franchise as it could bring people interested on it into its origins, thus more people appreciating the currently running rider franchise in japan just like most people here brought by the power ranger effect...
 

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