[DISCUSSION] Kamen Rider Zero-One, Episode 02

[Toku Prime]

Do you think that the viewers will realize that we're re-using the ending to 'Iron Man'?
Nah, that movie's eleven years old. Most of them weren't even born when it came out.​

Aruto has his first verbal clash with his obligatory angry secondary Rider, they are interrupted by a bat-themed HumaGear (seriously, where were you last week along with a spider? There are rules dammit!), it turns out "authorize" actually has a meaning beyond being word salad for the belts to shout, that mechanical grasshopper smashes ALL OF THE GLASS, we meet Battle Rise Hopper, we'll totally overlook the obvious truck bed in one shot of the bike chase because they follow it with an Akira Slide, and cargo containers get very melty.

Side note - Avex have recently started making Rider-related music available in the West recently, and with the release of REALxEYEZ they have also made loads more BG music from the Heisei seasons available to stream.

 

[Dr Kain]

I was waiting for the episode to end with Aruto saying, "I am Iron man."

A solid episode but it was weird not having the opening theme playing. It better be in next week's episode.

 

[Hangyakuno]

And I thought we finally get cool rider again, atleast at Sento level, where MC only occasionally making joke but actually a serious person. We need nation threat level and end this company drama as fast as possible. That is what make me end up liking Build and Gaim. And those thing hidden under water by Metsuboujinrai base looks promising. Added by Aruto Grandpa's last message, I hope after couple of episode to promote regular Rider, there will be massive Humagear rebel against human then they can reduce extras and CGI where those extras turn into bad humagear.
Something like i-Robot.

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

First of all, I just want to say: Thank you, Toku Prime, for taking time out of your schedule to make this episode discussion.

And thus the show establishes its two biggest characters; the main hero who was saved by a Humagear, and the other hero that’s only seen evil Humagears. The one who wants to save them, and the one who wants to destroy them... I'm hanging on because I want to know why it's important for Aruto (seriously, I keep wanting to type Haruto, thanks to Wizard...) to keep his identity a secret. Honestly, if the ending scene is any kind of hint, he won't keep his secret for very long. At the very least, those A.I.M.S. agents will be the first to figure it out.

Also, I will NEVER get tired of seeing motorcycle choreography, but they kind of lost a point for doing the Akira bike slide. Speaking of losing points, I SERIOUSLY hope they improve Aruto’s standup routine as the show goes. I’m pretty sure they aren’t going to drop it entirely, but at least make it charming like they did in Build. Here, it just keeps coming out of nowhere, even though it’s been established that he wants to be a comedian. He’s so over-the-top with it that I’m getting tonal whiplash, and I really don’t like it.

 

[Shogun_Master]

Yeah, I've kind of been ignoring Aruto's writing so far. For the most part, I'm used to knowing that there's going to be at least one character like that in every Rider season, it's just that he's the main lead this time. At the very least, the guy's a pretty good actor. You got to love how he was reacting to meeting AIMS for the first time all throughout this episode.

But, pretty solid introduction to Vulcan. I kind of hope that song that was playing just after Vulcan took out his Humagear is a full song & not just a short musical cue. That was pretty badass. The one thing that threw me is the security guard bot, who seemed to show up again at the end, even though he was destroyed. If that was Aruto's remembering the guy like he was just there, they didn't really frame the shot like that.

Oh, & I just checked. I hope no one minds me saying that episode 3 does finally have an opening theme sequence.

 

[scikaiju]

Speaking of losing points, I SERIOUSLY hope they improve Aruto’s standup routine as the show goes. I’m pretty sure they aren’t going to drop it entirely, but at least make it charming like they did in Build. Here, it just keeps coming out of nowhere, even though it’s been established that he wants to be a comedian. He’s so over-the-top with it that I’m getting tonal whiplash, and I really don’t like it.

I thought his whole bit was he was supposed to be a comedian but didn't really have a sense of humor. I mean the only person we've seen laugh at him was a humagear when he was a child, and I'm pretty sure he was programmed to do that. Considering in the first episode we see him do his act and he had no audience, and if he hadn't improved since he was a kid I don't think improved jokes are in the cards any time soon.

 

[Hangyakuno]

The fact that everyone have to pointed about how Aruto's joke can't work was the real joke here. Like in W, their main character established with word "Halfboiled" using the fact that Shotaro can't act hardboiled and every other character pointet that out.

Rather than wait for Aruto get better with his joke, actually i'm better with Aruto stop his standup routine. He wasn't comedian anymore, he is a leader now and it is better to show his charismatic speech, just like at end of this episode, and only did his joke for nostalgic use. Seriously, I laugh for his failed joke at end of episode, didn't expect he will destroy his own image right after his speech and Izu even help him with it. But I hope he will not often to use it.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

I have to give Aruto's actor a little more credit than I did when I initially saw the previews. His voice does still annoy me, but it's come down to the times when he does his comedy routine. Also, I think I should mention that whenever Aruto ends up getting into a fight in civilian form, gets knocked down, somehow, in the next shot, his hair is back to being perfectly straightened out when before it was all muffled.

I think the comedy routine is just kind of poor to be honest, and a case of forcing actors to commit to something that they can't do properly. I understand that it's something similar to Shotaro's "half-boiled" schtick, but honestly, Kiriyama Ren was kind of perfect when it came to portraying that. This just feels like the comedy routine is poorly done, like, it wasn't written to "bomb" in design, it was written to come off as unnerving and poor, but kind of sloppily. Yes, I just said they did a bit that was meant to come off as bad comedy poorly. He's kind of growing on me weirdly, although there's a lot of aspects about his character that is still "off" for me.

 

[Hangyakuno]

I have to give Aruto's actor a little more credit than I did when I initially saw the previews. His voice does still annoy me, but it's come down to the times when he does his comedy routine. Also, I think I should mention that whenever Aruto ends up getting into a fight in civilian form, gets knocked down, somehow, in the next shot, his hair is back to being perfectly straightened out when before it was all muffled.

Well, he is new. I think he still adjusted his acting with his voice. He get better ever episode.
About hair, I hope you are joking.

I think the comedy routine is just kind of poor to be honest, and a case of forcing actors to commit to something that they can't do properly. I understand that it's something similar to Shotaro's "half-boiled" schtick, but honestly, Kiriyama Ren was kind of perfect when it came to portraying that. This just feels like the comedy routine is poorly done, like, it wasn't written to "bomb" in design, it was written to come off as unnerving and poor, but kind of sloppily. Yes, I just said they did a bit that was meant to come off as bad comedy poorly. He's kind of growing on me weirdly, although there's a lot of aspects about his character that is still "off" for me.

This kind character need another character to make them look better. I didn't like Shotaro antic until Terui join in and make him more stand out with his character. The same happen with Gentarou and Kouta.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

That's kind of why I said they should hire more experienced actors instead of using Rider as a way to always bring in new faces. And no, I'm not kidding about the hair. I know this is an Episode 2 discussion thread, but Episode 3 had a VERY clear example of it.

The problem with point with bringing in another character to "make him look better" isn't necessarily the case. They already have the five main characters that are gonna be Riders since the start, plus Izu who is his supporting member. It's not about needing more characters, it's about the writing.

 

[Hangyakuno]

That's kind of why I said they should hire more experienced actors instead of using Rider as a way to always bring in new faces. And no, I'm not kidding about the hair. I know this is an Episode 2 discussion thread, but Episode 3 had a VERY clear example of it.

The problem with point with bringing in another character to "make him look better" isn't necessarily the case. They already have the five main characters that are gonna be Riders since the start, plus Izu who is his supporting member. It's not about needing more characters, it's about the writing.

But it is already happened since earlier Heisei. New face, pretty face. Someone who never make name before in entertainment business or only act as mob character in previous work. Experienced actor only used as side character and mostly even get a role as comedy relief or unimportant character just to balance act from new one. I don't it is bad, it is just what they used to do, for budget or just to introduce new actor or actress.

Well, hair. They want to show face of their talent in their best. I don't think we have to nitpick this, as everything not really gone by logic here.
Not telling you to shut your brain off, just give some tolerance for it.
It is Tokusatsu. Child show.
No matter how much sugar put in word to excuse it, it is just child show which still loved even by grown up.

Yes, I agree. It is not about more character, therefore I say "another character". Right now, not every character support each other act, there is no real teamwork between them. By look from Fuwa in end of this episode, I guess he will be the one who add dynamic to strengthen Aruto character. Prepare for comedic duo when both of them gain understanding.
You see, I start to love Banjou and Sento bantering after Kazumi join in, because Miitan and Sawa was not enough to make best of it. Right now Aruto ally , which mean the one add more depth to his character, is only Izu. And it is not enough.

Spoiler: Only if you already watch eps 3

And I think shadowy man which Yua report in is experienced actor. I think i heard his voice somewhere. And if he is, maybe he will be the one to make this comedic phase start to shift to serious phase.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

You know, this whole excuse of "it's just a kid's show, but also loved by adults" excuse has got to go. Even my nephew who is 9 thinks a lot of this stuff is bullshit. And he's not the only one. Him and his friends came over to my house, and I showed them the older shows. Guess what? They prefer the ones with better writing and better acting, because when you start treating kids with some respect rather than "oh they're kids, they know nothing", they actually are able to start talking maturely and listen. It surprises me how many people dismiss a kid's intelligence and expects them to just swallow up bullshit that they KNOW don't happen in the real world when it comes to television.

 

[Kamen Rider IXA]

Didn't Build have experienced actor as MC?

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

Inukai had a career since 2014, so yeah, I guess he does count as having had experience before. My main point was more like, get actors who have PLENTY of experience spanning up to at least 5 years. You know, actors who have done both film and theater acting, because the latter is kind of where you really need to enhance your charisma and performance presence.

I'm kind of like, more on the lines of getting an actor like Hibiki's actor again. Real men, who are capable of holding their own without needing to work out a routine as the series goes along. Someone who's already able to establish what they're gonna do from day one of the shoot till the last day of the shoot.

 

[Hangyakuno]

If it is only experienced to show up in film or theatre, then most of this talent already did, but not kind who blow up their name.
Not guarantee they can act better as MC.
Sometimes their own story affected their success in their role. Like Takeru Sato which have to potrayed multiple beloved imagin character versus Shun Nishime whose stuck with boring character like Tenkuji Takeru. Seriously for second phase of Heisei Rider, I'm only like Shunya and Inukai acting from the start of series, while other need time to show up their talent.

Well most if this talent treat their part in Kamen Rider as stepping stone to bigger role. Which is why they need more appeal.
I don't think we can deny this show is child show was the reason of amount of absurd thing in show. Your nephew was too smart to questioning everything in this show.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

See, it's not about whether or not their name blew up. It's more about whether they were right for the role or not, and if the writing matched and synchronized or not. I can tell you from experience alone from being in a casting director's position when I was in Hollywood that a lot of people in the same position as me liked to go "Oh, he's a new up and comer, he looks great! Let's get him!" without even looking as to whether the script is best for their talent or if they were right for the script. If Tenkuji Takeru is a boring character, then that makes the actor a boring actor to look at. If the actor is a boring actor, then no matter how good the script, the actor makes the script sucks. It's a symbiotic relationship that you NEED to get down perfectly, and that only comes from understanding the written material, and having an eye for pulling out the correct and right actors for the part.

And, we CAN deny it is a child's show. Just look at Kamen Rider's history as to what it started off as, and what most of it did back then. Sure, you can argue that people have become more sensitive, therefore things like Shin Kamen Rider and other more gorey and violent shows wouldn't exist, but the existence of Amazons alone disproves this - because it tried to take Kamen Rider back to it's gorey nature that it had to it as well. It's the same argument you're making for Kamen Rider that people who make against comic book fans if they complained the movie was subpar compared to the source material when the movies Marvel and DC makes gets watered and dumbed down. It's just false equivalency.

And no, my nephew wasn't the only one questioning it. I said his friends (3 of them) all did. So that's four kids. And I can say that all of aren't "too smart". See, this is what I mean. It's insulting the intelligence of the common people that if they can just see past bullshit, somehow they're smart. There's actually a study done that people's IQ levels, especially in kid's, increase when they are doing things they love and when they are happily engaging in activities they already liked, so even intelligence level varies depending on the situation and context of things.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

Also, there is nothing more insulting than saying something is a "child's show". Walt Disney famously said something along the lines of, "I designed these characters not just for children, but for the child inside the adult". That's why, no matter in what media, or form, be it a cartoon, television, or comic, it WILL resonate with the person. It's not meant to make people childish, it's meant to make them more childlike, where they're capable of happily suspending their disbelief and going along with something to have fun. Trust me, there's a big difference between being childish and childlike, and people get wrongly accused of being a "manchild" all the time just because people can't understand there's a difference there.

 

[Black Fang]

You know, this whole excuse of "it's just a kid's show, but also loved by adults" excuse has got to go. Even my nephew who is 9 thinks a lot of this stuff is bullshit. And he's not the only one. Him and his friends came over to my house, and I showed them the older shows. Guess what? They prefer the ones with better writing and better acting, because when you start treating kids with some respect rather than "oh they're kids, they know nothing", they actually are able to start talking maturely and listen. It surprises me how many people dismiss a kid's intelligence and expects them to just swallow up bullshit that they KNOW don't happen in the real world when it comes to television.

I think a lot of it has to do with not wanting to appear like a stereotypical nerd obsessed with this stuff. "Oh no, I'm not one of those closeted geeks, I'm totally self-aware, this is just silly junk for kids, it's ok if XYZ sucks because it's not for me, I totally get that, I'm not a nerd, I'm cool, I'm cool!!"

Not that they'll ever admit this, though...

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

I think a lot of it has to do with not wanting to appear like a stereotypical nerd obsessed with this stuff. "Oh no, I'm not one of those closeted geeks, I'm totally self-aware, this is just silly junk for kids, it's ok if XYZ sucks because it's not for me, I totally get that, I'm not a nerd, I'm cool, I'm cool!!"

Not that they'll ever admit this, though...

Pretty much the guy version of "I'm like totally not like other girls!"

Like, it's fine to admit you like weird ****, and if it makes you "weird" organically, then at least you're being authentic rather than appeasing to the crowds or trying to play into social stereotypes. I feel like this whole "I'm a nerd, but a cool nerd! I have tattoos see! And I can grow a beard, and I go to the gym! And I totally game and watch anime!" stuff is just an attempt to blend stereotypes together to try and have the best of both worlds. I mean, there are the rare few that achieve this, but I don't think they prefer either labels of "I'm a cool guy" or "I'm a nerdy guy". They just say "I like this, got a problem?" instead of trying to categorize themselves. The thing about categorizing is, it was created after personality types and social norms were established, it's akin to self-diagnosing that you have some mental disorder based on a few minutes reading online on lists of mental disorders - "I totally have ADHD, I can't focus!" - or in other words "I'm just lazy, and I just looked for one reason online that sounds scientific enough to pull this pseudo-intellectual statement and try to pass it off as being smarter than I really am!". You don't get to categorize yourself, people do that for you. Sure, labeling people is wrong, but we developed language for a reason. The connotations in which those words are said is really the problem people struggle with.

 

[Toku Prime]

The fact that everyone have to pointed about how Aruto's joke can't work was the real joke here. Like in W, their main character established with word "Halfboiled" using the fact that Shotaro can't act hardboiled and every other character pointet that out.

Rather than wait for Aruto get better with his joke, actually i'm better with Aruto stop his standup routine. He wasn't comedian anymore, he is a leader now and it is better to show his charismatic speech, just like at end of this episode, and only did his joke for nostalgic use. Seriously, I laugh for his failed joke at end of episode, didn't expect he will destroy his own image right after his speech and Izu even help him with it. But I hope he will not often to use it.

The thing to remember about the whole "half boiled thing" is that it also tied nicely into one of Double's story arcs - Shotaro's process of growing up. At the beginning of the show he is very immature, and his attempts to act "hard boiled" are essentially him pretending to be more mature than he is. Everyone can see through it and use their "half boiled" taunts to call him out on it. As the show goes on and Shotaro gains maturity and becomes his own man, he spends less and less time insisting that he's full boiled (because he no longer has to pretend) and when he does get called "half boiled" his reactions are less extreme because he's more confident in himself and who he is.

Hopefully, the thing with Aruto's jokes will similarly be linked to a plot thread. Many people have already predicted that it will turn out that he's a super-advanced new generation HumaGear (given that his "father" was one, that he was kept away from public scrutiny from now and is immediately told that he should keep his role as Zero-One a secret, etc). Perhaps the jokes will get better as an example of him becoming more human? Or perhaps as he comes to term with who he really is, he will (like Shotaro) feel less need to try and be something he's not?