Did you think Onodera was a good Godai replacement?

[lazycoconut]

I like Onodera just because I have a crush on Ryouta Murai. As a character though, he wasn't that great :sweat:

 

[NeonZ]

Do we know for a fact that Yuichi Nakamura was unavailable?

The 1st Cho Den-O movie was mostly about Yuuto, yet they only could get Yuichi into a single scene at the end, having him initially disappearing off screen in the beginning. So, the movie basically had no introductory scene for Deneb and his problem. I highly doubt that was an ideal situation.

I also remember a picture of Zeronos in some early Chou Den-O preview magazine article, yet he was never in the actual movie.

That's why I said that if you couldn't get the alumni for the show itself (and is it really so hard to bring back actors for only one or two episodes?) there is always the movie.

I think you need to consider not only Toei's probable cheapness regarding money, but also the series schedule. Those actors would need free time at the right moment of specific arcs in order to allow the recordings. The summer movie is recorded in a schedule similar to the show's, so it basically has the same problem. Then, there are also people who just wouldn't return in any situation...

You could have the show feature Tsukasa traveling the worlds, acting as the Rider of that world (Wouldn't that be a better endorsement of the Ganbaride game anyway? I thought Toei and Bandai love product placement, a Rider who is essentially RP-ing as other Riders would have been perfect), trying to fix things, and then in the movie team-up with the real nine Riders to fight the boss villain.

Ganbaride involves team battles. Decade going around mimicking other Riders by himself wouldn't really resemble it much. Decade teaming up with various other Riders is much closer.

Like I've said before, the tv series still would have had the same problem regarding lack of Riders. The summer movie aired two weeks before the finale at least, so the final battle never could have been there for simple schedule reasons.

Teaming up with the older Riders in the movie would have been nice, but, really, there was nothing stopping them from doing it even with the current set up.

Storywise, any previous Rider actor could easily have been inserted into All Riders (which featured 8 Heisei Riders who seemingly weren't the ones that Decade met in his journey), the tv finale (Yet again, 8 Heisei Riders who weren't the ones Decade met in his jorney, and Wataru and Kenzaki actually appeared out of suit and transformed) and The Last Story (Which yet again featured some Heisei Riders different from the ones Decade met in his journey - although it also featured the AU versions in the final battle)... So, it's not like the AU set up made it impossible to feature the original actors. It was possible, they just didn't do it for other reasons.

How? All you'd have to do is replace the AU Riders' roles in those stories with Tsukasa.

What? I was trying to say is that if you eliminated the AU Riders (and main Riders), you'd be left with Tsukasa and a bunch of minor secondary characters in the series.

Also, Tsukasa wouldn't be able to replace the AU Riders effectively all the time due to his own character too. You couldn't seriously make him go through 9 phases of character development in 18 episodes without making him just schizophrenic.

His development also would be limited due to his own lack of specific connections with each world. You couldn't apply Decade Asumu's story to Tsukasa, nor Decade Kazuma's (because Tsukasa would have no reason to worry about losing a ranking in some random world) or Decade Shouichi's (The whole G3 -> Gills -> Agito evolution and his connection to Yashiro).

Actually, I wonder if they couldn't just bring back one or two supporting characters from the previous shows into each World as they did Hibiki and Den-O. I could easily imagine Tsukasa trying to fill Shinji's shoes in stopping Kanzaki Shiro's Game only to be rebuffed by Ren.

They probably could have done that I guess. But, like I've said before, you'd still get people complaining about the "replacement Riders", only this time all the hate would be directed to Tsukasa himself.

 

[Smilodon]

What I liked about Decade, was the music. The Next Decade rocked. Gackt did a really good job on it. Oh and cant forget about not one, but TWO Minami Kotaro's appearing.

But regarding the actors: Obviously Mizushima Hiro was probably busy with Beck, Hosokawa and Odagiri Joe probably dont wanna do it, Takeru Satoh was also busy with Beck probably and no one knows about Takayama Suga.

 

[RossoEagleBurst]

I heard that Takamasa Suga is busy with his business.
And I surprised Kento Handa not appeared in Decade, it's just one year after his appearance in Go-Onger Movie (and one of the Go-Onger episode).

 

[Igadevil]

I think that the idea of having a past lead Rider as the back-up/support (or dare I say, secondary Rider) of a new guy is a cool one in theory. In practice though, it needs to be done with total conviction, which is why most of the time they've stuck to the occasional team-up. That builds up the excitement and allows the new character a chance to come into their own.

It's better in the long run that the Double Riders bow out after the opening story of V3 to give him some breathing room before they come back. Had they stuck around, it'd be hard not to think of it as what it was going to be once- Kamen Rider episode #99, 100, etc, as opposed to the V3 show. Sometimes the Riders are at their best when they're just offscreen, but still ever-present in the audience's minds (i.e. New Kamen Rider)

Of course with Onodera it's tricky since he's Kuuga, but he's not the original Kuuga. It's not the same as having Godai wheelie in, juggle some curry plates and give the thumbs up. It's exciting only on one level rather than two. You get Kuuga, but it's not the same man behind the mask. In a way the whole AU business is an even harder sell than in-suit only appearances, because at least there our imagination can fill in the holes. We can believe that stunt guy is really __________, even if the voice is totally off. Here, we know from the get-go that he's not going to be the same one as Odagiri played.

And at first, I thought this was pretty interesting. He's like Kuuga if Kuuga were made now rather than in 2000. There's more confidence in the actual production, but there's less confidence in the characters themselves. Yuusuke's got issues. When things get too big for him to handle, he practically gives up! When he helps save the day, it still ends in tragedy. I kinda liked that.

It's like a deconstruction, but it's almost like its taking apart itself rather than the original. The original Kuuga is great is because he's Godai, that's what the series is all about, culiminating in the you-know-what with you-know-who and the you-know-what-form. In his debut, Onodera's not bad, but he's a far more flawed character. He can barely protect anyone's smiles if he's raging about Decade. Had they continued from there, they could have done a pretty interesting, almost reverse origin story, where the guy who is Kuuga becomes great, rather than it being about a great guy who becomes Kuuga.

Unfortunately I think the writers lost interest in Yuusuke and his capacity to be the show's "secondary Rider" pretty soon after that. He gets the odd good bit here or there, but it's clear they're struggling with him at times and the bits of Kuuga action are a courtesy. Aikawa gets bored with him after a while aside from Agito World, where he doesn't get to do the one big thing he really should've and instead is just G3-X for a while.

Kobayashi just turns him into Momotaros, though in fairness does good with him in the Shinkenger stuff. Inoue has him run from monsters and knocks him out. The Kabuto World guy just like forgot he existed (though he didn't forget about Pegasus Form! Maybe that was the script editor though, if they even have those anymore.) Yonemura had a learning curve, going from "Wait, who is this again?" in Blade World to "Ah yes Kuuga, one of the weaker Riders, right?" in Hibiki World, and finally to "Oh right... that Kuuga." in the last few.

I don't even want to get into the Odagiri thing because at this point, I don't know the whole story. I have read the interview where he expressed trepidation about taking on the role, because it's in one of the Kuuga books, and not a peep since. It all does kind of remind me of Christopher Eccleston and Doctor Who- he played the part well, he had his gripes about the production though he still spoke highly of the program, but he's moved on. He's an actor who played a role, compared to his successors who also happened to be (or quickly became) fans. It's not a perfect comparison, but that's how it sort of strikes me with Odagiri: an actor helps revive a franchise and make it a television mainstay again, then moves on to other things and hasn't looked back since. I'm probably missing a beat here though.

I don't think I could say Onodera's a replacement, because he's playing such a different character in my head. Unfortunately, in another way, he basically has become the replacement. I've got a feeling that if we see Kuuga again, it would either have to be the Onodera version or just guy-in-a-suit-with-a-voice. Who knows though- I could see Odagiri making a big return to the Tokusatsu scene when his career starts to cool down a bit. It's happened before.

 

[Smilodon]

I think that the idea of having a past lead Rider as the back-up/support (or dare I say, secondary Rider) of a new guy is a cool one in theory. In practice though, it needs to be done with total conviction, which is why most of the time they've stuck to the occasional team-up. That builds up the excitement and allows the new character a chance to come into their own.

It's better in the long run that the Double Riders bow out after the opening story of V3 to give him some breathing room before they come back. Had they stuck around, it'd be hard not to think of it as what it was going to be once- Kamen Rider episode #99, 100, etc, as opposed to the V3 show. Sometimes the Riders are at their best when they're just offscreen, but still ever-present in the audience's minds (i.e. New Kamen Rider)

Of course with Onodera it's tricky since he's Kuuga, but he's not the original Kuuga. It's not the same as having Godai wheelie in, juggle some curry plates and give the thumbs up. It's exciting only on one level rather than two. You get Kuuga, but it's not the same man behind the mask. In a way the whole AU business is an even harder sell than in-suit only appearances, because at least there our imagination can fill in the holes. We can believe that stunt guy is really __________, even if the voice is totally off. Here, we know from the get-go that he's not going to be the same one as Odagiri played.

And at first, I thought this was pretty interesting. He's like Kuuga if Kuuga were made now rather than in 2000. There's more confidence in the actual production, but there's less confidence in the characters themselves. Yuusuke's got issues. When things get too big for him to handle, he practically gives up! When he helps save the day, it still ends in tragedy. I kinda liked that.

It's like a deconstruction, but it's almost like its taking apart itself rather than the original. The original Kuuga is great is because he's Godai, that's what the series is all about, culiminating in the you-know-what with you-know-who and the you-know-what-form. In his debut, Onodera's not bad, but he's a far more flawed character. He can barely protect anyone's smiles if he's raging about Decade. Had they continued from there, they could have done a pretty interesting, almost reverse origin story, where the guy who is Kuuga becomes great, rather than it being about a great guy who becomes Kuuga.

Unfortunately I think the writers lost interest in Yuusuke and his capacity to be the show's "secondary Rider" pretty soon after that. He gets the odd good bit here or there, but it's clear they're struggling with him at times and the bits of Kuuga action are a courtesy. Aikawa gets bored with him after a while aside from Agito World, where he doesn't get to do the one big thing he really should've and instead is just G3-X for a while.

Kobayashi just turns him into Momotaros, though in fairness does good with him in the Shinkenger stuff. Inoue has him run from monsters and knocks him out. The Kabuto World guy just like forgot he existed (though he didn't forget about Pegasus Form! Maybe that was the script editor though, if they even have those anymore.) Yonemura had a learning curve, going from "Wait, who is this again?" in Blade World to "Ah yes Kuuga, one of the weaker Riders, right?" in Hibiki World, and finally to "Oh right... that Kuuga." in the last few.

I don't even want to get into the Odagiri thing because at this point, I don't know the whole story. I have read the interview where he expressed trepidation about taking on the role, because it's in one of the Kuuga books, and not a peep since. It all does kind of remind me of Christopher Eccleston and Doctor Who- he played the part well, he had his gripes about the production though he still spoke highly of the program, but he's moved on. He's an actor who played a role, compared to his successors who also happened to be (or quickly became) fans. It's not a perfect comparison, but that's how it sort of strikes me with Odagiri: an actor helps revive a franchise and make it a television mainstay again, then moves on to other things and hasn't looked back since. I'm probably missing a beat here though.

I don't think I could say Onodera's a replacement, because he's playing such a different character in my head. Unfortunately, in another way, he basically has become the replacement. I've got a feeling that if we see Kuuga again, it would either have to be the Onodera version or just guy-in-a-suit-with-a-voice. Who knows though- I could see Odagiri making a big return to the Tokusatsu scene when his career starts to cool down a bit. It's happened before.

Great insight Igadevil. It would've been great to have Onodera become more like Godai, but in the end Kuuga will always be Odagiri.

I always imagined IF Odagiri came back to Kamen Rider, I'd be hoping itd be in the continuaty of Kuuga/Agito. It'd be cool if it was a surprise though, Toei would keep their mouths shut about Odagiri's return, and in the first episode, a random Lord would attack a new, incapable G3-X would attempt to fend off the Lord after years of peace and then, BAM Odagiri comes in doing a wheelie. -opening credits roll-.

@RossoEagleBurst
Nice Av and Sig. I love Shiori Kutsuna. And Beck:buttrock:

 

[Forever Knight]

Goddamn it would be nice if for once a discussion of Kuuga could go by without this coming up.

We both know that will NEVER happen. Just like any convo involving AJJ and PR.

They probably could have done that I guess. But, like I've said before, you'd still get people complaining about the "replacement Riders", only this time all the hate would be directed to Tsukasa himself.

I would also have been on the list of complainers if the Decade story did not explain why the original Riders weren't involved (except the VA's, Finale Blade, and Black/RX of course).

 

[Black Fang]

I think you need to consider not only Toei's probable cheapness regarding money, but also the series schedule. Those actors would need free time at the right moment of specific arcs in order to allow the recordings. The summer movie is recorded in a schedule similar to the show's, so it basically has the same problem. Then, there are also people who just wouldn't return in any situation...

My ultimate point is, Toei should have done gone for all-or-nothing. If they could get back the alumni, then by all means go ahead and do a show like Decade. If they could not get them, then they should have just done something else. Instead they tried an awful compromise and threw in as much fanwanking garbage as possible to placate those fans who would just take whatever is given to them. The result: one of the worst tokus, most insulting ever made.

What? I was trying to say is that if you eliminated the AU Riders (and main Riders), you'd be left with Tsukasa and a bunch of minor secondary characters in the series.

Also, Tsukasa wouldn't be able to replace the AU Riders effectively all the time due to his own character too. You couldn't seriously make him go through 9 phases of character development in 18 episodes without making him just schizophrenic.

I said Tsukasa, through his adventures in the Worlds, could learn something about the Rider of that World by the secondary characters. Essentially it could be a Gao-vs-SS style tutorial for him, the newest Rider, until he faced the ultimate enemy.

His development also would be limited due to his own lack of specific connections with each world. You couldn't apply Decade Asumu's story to Tsukasa, nor Decade Kazuma's (because Tsukasa would have no reason to worry about losing a ranking in some random world) or Decade Shouichi's (The whole G3 -> Gills -> Agito evolution and his connection to Yashiro).

I didn't say leave everything 100% unchanged except for Tsukasa replacing each AU Rider. Obviously things would have to be adjusted, but the premise would still work.

They probably could have done that I guess. But, like I've said before, you'd still get people complaining about the "replacement Riders", only this time all the hate would be directed to Tsukasa himself.

So what? There are people who complain about Agito or Liveman or Nexus. But for the most part they're considered some of the best entries in their respective franchises. You can't cite finicky fans as a reason not to rewrite Decade in a non-abhorrent way.

 

[Xtreme RX]

He was a good actor. By all respects, he even suceeded in adding a little emotion than Odagiri. But Odagiri was a better Kuuga. But I treat both as completely different characters, because in continuity, they are.

 

[MattComix]

He was a good actor. By all respects, he even suceeded in adding a little emotion than Odagiri. But Odagiri was a better Kuuga. But I treat both as completely different characters, because in continuity, they are.

Well yeah. Onodera was fighting for the smile of one person and it's Yashiro that teaches him to extend that to the larger picture. Onodera's arc kinda works him up to being what Godai was from the start. (Even the show doesn't really follow through on this because after his arc he's just relegated to junior dumbass). The danger with Godai was what if he loses his kind heart to hate and because of that the power of Kuuga consumes him.

With Onodera, he might have achived his powers quickly but he would have been soooo much more susceptible to the temptations of Kuuga's power if not for Yashiro-san.