Are those super sentais as bad as the internet says?

Mikon

Member
Top reason people hate Goseiger:

[hide]Because its not Shinkenger[/hide]

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Forever Knight

Eye See You
Worst Sentai:

Go-Onger and Fiveman.

I think Turboranger gets a bum rap. A lot of people will just see the fairy and write it off as stupid without giving it a chance. For those who have watched the show, the general consensus is that it starts off slow, but picks up halfway through when new villains join. :shrug: The show's definitely not on the same level as what the writer did in his Change through Live shows, but I don't think it's as weak or generic as Fiveman, though.

This. Once Yamimaru & Kirika join forces it's all uphill from there.

Takeuchi's one Red role blows away Fukuzawa's several, IMO.

It was a nice change for Fukuzawa to not be red for Magiranger & Goseiger but I still prefer him over anyone else that is doing suit work right now.
 

Tokuboy

Kuuguitar
Top reason people hate Goseiger:

[hide]Because its not Shinkenger[/hide]

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That's actually a valid point. Like Kiva, it's got a few things it could have done better, but both shows just have the misfortune to be sandwiched in between a fan favorite series (both written by Kobayashi) and an anniversary series.
 

KouAidou

二番目の翻訳者
^ Eh, that's pretty dismissive. While that may explain why it's a meme to hate on Goseiger or Kiva, for the most part I'd rather give people credit for knowing their own tastes and say they don't like one or the other because... the shows were pretty mediocre, and what they do well isn't what most fans want.

When you get right down to it I think most people would be happiest if they could really get into every series that came out. It's just, the shows themselves don't always make that possible.

Besides, Den-O and Decade both get more than their share of serious hate, and it's usually not from people who think Kiva's better...
 

Medivh

Member
^ Eh, that's pretty dismissive. While that may explain why it's a meme to hate on Goseiger or Kiva, for the most part I'd rather give people credit for knowing their own tastes and say they don't like one or the other because... the shows were pretty mediocre, and what they do well isn't what most fans want.

When you get right down to it I think most people would be happiest if they could really get into every series that came out. It's just, the shows themselves don't always make that possible.

Besides, Den-O and Decade both get more than their share of serious hate, and it's usually not from people who think Kiva's better...

True, but I think at least in Den-O's case it's a bird of a different color. I at least, and many others I know, dislike it simply because we're TIRED of it. Okay, we get it. It was popular. We can understand the extra movie. But we're how many years now from Den-O and he's STILL popping up? HOW many movies and specials has he had? The series itself was fine. It was a bit quirky but it was fun and most people would have liked to remember it fondly as it was.

......buuuuut then they milked the **** out of it. Now, at least in my eyes, I just want it to END.

As for the aforementioned Sentais....out of those that I've seen, I like Magiranger, frankly. It had it's odd moments but it wasn't bad. Decent progression. It wasn't like Meemey just showed up out of left field with little to no explanation. *cough*everyvillainingoseiger*cough* It may have had some cheesy moments and Harry Potter-esque gimmicks, but at the end of the day it was fun.

All in all for Goseiger it seemed to me like we were missing something integral to the point of the thing. Something someone either forgot to say or expected us to know. Something that would have put all our questions into some context even if they weren't answered. By the time I'd stopped watching, no one had given us that answer. I liked the series in a way, and looking back I kinda wanna watch it again to see if maybe the piece I'm at least missing clicks, but the bottom line at least for me is that it felt like there were missing pieces we were supposed to know but no one told us.

Go-Onger....man, anyone who picks on that series is too serious on themselves. I understand if you can't get into it. That's fine. It's completely understandable. But in reality, looking back on it, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It was...it's like Fourze is now. It's fun, it's wacky, it's not often serious if at all. It simply is what it is, and that's not some people's cup of tea.
 

Lynxara

Nice post!!
_Turboranger
_Fiveman: a poor title, a poor song, a boring show.

Turboranger and Fiveman mainly get picked on because of how they compare to what came before. Prior to Turboranger, all of the Soda-written shows steadily got better and better. Turbo is where he begins to show definite signs of burnout and Fiveman can feel pretty phoned-in, story-wise.

Modern fans tend not to hold very negative opinions of these shows, because for the most part, modern fans haven't seen any of Soda's highly-reputed 80s shows like Liveman or Changeman. If you show Turboranger to someone who's never seen Sentai prior to Go-onger, they tend to think it's pretty badass.

_Ohranger: a show whose story was edited because of what happened in Tokyo this year, and that became annoying because of those changings.

I don't think this is a case where people actually dislike the show so much as they're frustrated by the lost potential. All of the serious parts of Ohranger have been popular pretty much for as long as I've been in the fandom, which is a long time. The comedy parts of Ohranger aren't as well-realized as what other shows at the time were doing, so they're not remembered fondly.

_Magiranger: a Harry Potter Sentai, a bad sentai because the theme of magic doesnt fit with SS.

Magiranger is not a show that anyone with good sense argues is bad. That said, a lot of long-term fans found Magiranger's hyperactive comedy style an extremely annoying turnoff when the show debuted. By comparison, more modern fans are very likely to rank it as one of their absolute favorites because they can more easily accept its style as part of Sentai.

Magiranger is divisive because of its style, but that's not the same as accusing the show of being bad. Diehards who hate the goofy comedy these days usually fixate more on Go-onger, anyway, which took Magiranger's comedy style and either honed it to perfection or wretched excess, depending on your perspective.

_Goseiger: a SS with an empty story.

Goseiger is criticized more often for empty characters than for anything about its story. The empty characters criticism is an entirely valid one, too, I'm not sure any of the Goseiger characters is dynamic and as static characters they're still appallingly underdeveloped. The show had an interesting concept for its Red, but the idea was clearly stymied by the weakness of his supporting cast.

Goseiger was I think meant to be a throwback to earlier days of tokusatsu, when the main cast tended to be fairly bland. Fans excused this because other characters, like the villains, would be developed into extremely memorable characters who made the heroes seem more interesting just by fighting them.

While Goseiger had some memorable villains by modern standards, though, it only had one strong enough to be worth comparing to the villains of classic Sentai (and the comparison wouldn't be entirely favorable). Goseiger's three-faction gimmick was handled such that most of its villains couldn't be developed in any sort of memorable way.

If you have boring characters fighting mostly boring villains, then you've got a show that's going to bore most people regardless of whatever else you can find to praise about it. Any comments about Goseiger's story being "empty" probably stem from that. Modern Sentai fans expect these shows to be full of over-the-top gimmicky characters and Goseiger's cast just didn't cut it.

Do you think those show deserve these opinions?

A TV show is an inanimate object. It doesn't deserve or not deserve anything in particular. The show isn't hurt if people sit around and talk about it, either as something good or bad. Whether or not fans tend to generally like or dislike something frequently says more about the fans and why they come to the show than anything else.
 

Vitor

When The Fruit Of Life Corrupts Men
Top reason people hate Goseiger:

[hide]Because its not Shinkenger[/hide]

Watched Shikenger, didn't interest me that much either

Same with a lot of the modern sentai except Geki and Aba
 

Vitor

When The Fruit Of Life Corrupts Men
Why do people keep saying Alata was incompetent? I thought he was a great red. He learned stuff along the way, and become a great leader in the end.

Probably because he was the most vulnerable Red we've ever had

It's the same reason TONS of people dislike Kiva because of Wataru

To the point where they HAD to make a fan edit (and Otoya was the worst part of Kiva)

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Zyuranger
Zyuranger typically tends to get a free pass solely base on that fact that Saban used it to create MMPR
 

Black Ranger RX

I don't have low self esteem.
*TurboRanger.. Interesting but not much to say about it judging from what I've watched so far..

*Fiveman, same with TurboRanger but it had a pretty cool beginning. I actually liked the intro. Come on!! It's really cool!!

"WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA MY BROTHER!! WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA MY SISTER!!"

*OhRanger.. Can't say much but it seems interesting..

*MagiRanger.. Meh.. It's okay, you'll enjoy it if you can cope with the campyness..


*Goseiger.. THIS IS BLASPHEMY!!! THIS IS MADNESS!!!

Madness?

THIS IS THE WORST SUPER SENTAI EEEEEEEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*kicks Gosei Red in the gut*
 

Lynxara

Nice post!!
Probably because he was the most vulnerable Red we've ever had

This is not true by any means. Now, it's true that Gosei Red doesn't have the total infallibility typical of modern Reds, and the actor certainly lacked the physical presence of a Tori Matsuzaka, but this also goes back to Goseiger being a 90s throwback.

Actual 90s Reds more vulnerable than Alata:

- Tyranno Ranger, who gets an entire story arc of his brother berating him for being incompetent (whereas Gosei Red wins all of his major fights without help);
- Red Racer, who is diagetically incompetent (the entire plot of Ohranger vs. Carranger is about how bad he sucks compared to Oh Red);
- Ninja Red, who is diagetically self-absorbed and stupid (this is why Ninja White is the leader, Sasuke is unreliable);
- Ginga Red, who is diagetically inferior to his brother and wasn't supposed to be the Red Ranger at all;
- Mega Red, who is diagetically an idiot unfit to lead the team because he's inclined to only care about Korean BBQ and video games;
- Time Red, who is at the center of a complex conspiracy plot and is manipulated without his knowledge throughout the series.

The only super-competent Reds of the 90s are:

- Red Hawk, who's meant to contrast the other team members being totally untrained amateurs;
- OhRed, who's meant as an 80s throwback;
- Ryuuranger, who like all the Dairangers is a stone badass;
- Go Red, who is sort of an ideal Japanese big brother type.

Goseiger's director had last directed Sentai in the 90s, so there you go. Alata is a logical extension of what Sentai did with Reds back then. He's just going to be a rude awakening for people used to characters like Sousuke and Takeru who never struggle with anything.

By those standards, though, every Red of the 80s would be a pussy because he had to fight villains who weren't mindless punching bags. The real problem is that modern Sentai villains are so weak, people don't know how to react to a Red being portrayed in a fight that's not depicted as basically one-sided.
 

Sentaifan'07 Xman

"Let's DRIVING!!!!!"
negative reaction towards GoGoFive? that's just ridiculous. among the sibling teams, GoGoFive definitely handled the family theme best.

Yeah, who in their right minds would have a negative reaction towards GoGo-V?! Seriously, that was the best Sibling-based Sentai show I have ever seen. But regardless, Magiranger still has a place in my heart.
 
What reason drove scenarists to make villains weaker?

I assume it its to tone down the "violence" supersentais are blamed for, but maybe there is another reason.

I wonder if this is not because nowadays, in a way, "being cool" is more important than doing efforts.So making cool heroes rather than working hard ones is more marketting friendly.

I dont agree on seeing Takeru as a non vulnerable red ranger.He had a psychological fight with himself, thats a way to be vulnerable.

And Red Hawk had a crysis with Maria plot.Of course he is very strong physically, but vulnerability is not only about brute force.He had times of mental vulnerability.

It is hard to have an opinion on old sentais, because i assume from what i saw in videos that they grant less importance to psychology.

Goshiro in Bioman never met a true crysis, except when he discovers who his father is, but this is because the whole sentai is rather linear compared to modern shows.
 
I'm surprised noone mentioned Abaranger as being seen as a bad sentai; here at HJU, Aba is mostly enjoyed, but in other forums (like Ranger board or elsewhere), especially when it aired, I've read a lot of harsh stuff about it because of its silliness, the talking dinos, the over the top comedy, and many said that PR Dino Thunder was much better; I guess that since, Go-onger overshadowed it in silliness

About the series mentioned in the first post: Turboranger; it's pretty hard to come after Changeman, Flashman, Maskman and Liveman; moreover the series had a lighter tone, so it looked bad; Turbo is a personal favorite, notably because it has one of my favorite characters of the whole sentai franchise; Tsukikage Sayoko/ Kirika
Fiveman: same problem, and the series lacked in originality and was pretty childish ; even if the sibling team idea was fine, it wasn't as well done as it would be later in Gogofive; besides, after episode 20, I feel the story stalls and it goes nowhere during some time; and the puppets made it worse; that said, the beginning is fine, and starting with episode 37, the series becomes better
Ohranger: that series has a bad reputation, because it has suffered from behind the scenes trouble,after the Sarin subway attack; I think Ohranger is fine and has a lot of good ideas, especially when it comes about the mechas; in my opinion, the main problem is that the villains only begin to be interesting after Bacchusfundo's death (a problem I think Gokaiger has too; after all, both have an evil empire from space as antagonists)
Magi: the critics: a lot of bland heroes, silly characters (like Mandora and Smoky), some rushed stroylines (like Vancurya turning "good", or Urara/Hikaru); in my opinion, Magi has many flaws, but also many great ideas, an interesting storyline, and a well developed universe; so it's a fine series in my opinion
Goseiger: I don't like that series, that I feel can have interesting ideas (Buredoran/ Brajira, Goseiknight) but the heroes are mostly bland and most of the villains are either not interesting or wasted potential, notably because they don't have enough time to have development
 
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What reason drove scenarists to make villains weaker?

I assume it its to tone down the "violence" supersentais are blamed for, but maybe there is another reason.

I wonder if this is not because nowadays, in a way, "being cool" is more important than doing efforts.So making cool heroes rather than working hard ones is more marketting friendly.

I dont agree on seeing Takeru as a non vulnerable red ranger.He had a psychological fight with himself, thats a way to be vulnerable.

And Red Hawk had a crysis with Maria plot.Of course he is very strong physically, but vulnerability is not only about brute force.He had times of mental vulnerability.

It is hard to have an opinion on old sentais, because i assume from what i saw in videos that they grant less importance to psychology.

Goshiro in Bioman never met a true crysis, except when he discovers who his father is, but this is because the whole sentai is rather linear compared to modern shows.

in my opinion, the less intersting villains have been done before violence was toned down in sentai; for example, most villains before Dynaman in super sentai were one dimensional, static, since they have to stay until the end, despite having no real plot; likewise, I feel that in Metal Hero, villains only really began to be interesting starting with Juspion, with Metalder having well developed villains.
In recent sentai, there has been a lot of well done villains and villainesses, like Rio, Mele, Long, Dayu, Juuzo, and Brajira is certainly the best thing about Goseiger
 

Vitor

When The Fruit Of Life Corrupts Men
I'm surprised noone mentioned Abaranger as being seen as a bad sentai; here at HJU, Aba is mostly enjoyed, but in other forums (like Ranger board or elsewhere), especially when it aired, I've read a lot of harsh stuff about it because of its silliness, the talking dinos, the over the top comedy, and many said that PR Dino Thunder was much better; I guess that since, Go-onger overshadowed it in silliness

Talking dinosaurs are reasonable (Jim Henson's "Dinosaurs" and Don Bluth's "We're Back: A Dinosaur Story" for instance), talking cars aren't (except for Kitt), so I hardly see how anyone could find them silly. Also, keep in mind that HJU and Rangerboard are forums for discussing "JAPANESE KIDS SHOWS", so there is no such thing as "Too Silly"

But have you actually watched Abaranger for yourself?

If so, please don't take anything anyone else says into account until then
 
Talking dinosaurs are reasonable (Jim Henson's "Dinosaurs" and Don Bluth's "We're Back: A Dinosaur Story" for instance), talking cars aren't (except for Kitt), so I hardly see how anyone could find them silly. Also, keep in mind that HJU and Rangerboard are forums for discussing "JAPANESE KIDS SHOWS", so there is no such thing as "Too Silly"

But have you actually watched Abaranger for yourself?

If so, please don't take anything anyone else says into account until then

Have you seen my pseudo? Live jetabare; Abaranger is my personal favorite :laugh:
By the way, "Cars" and "Cars 2": animated movies with talking cars
 

KouAidou

二番目の翻訳者
Zyuranger typically tends to get a free pass solely base on that fact that Saban used it to create MMPR

Really? My impression was that most people compare it unfavorably to MMPR and the free pass it gets is mostly based on DragonRanger. (And maybe the fact that the toys are awesome.)
 

Clocktower

Member
Magiranger is a great series, you shouldn't listen to anyone claiming it was bad. My only complaint about it was the fact it took far too long for the interesting villains to come into it.

Go-onger isn't as bad as a lot of people here claim. It was clearly produced as more of a kids show and it has a lot of humour to it that a lot of people may not really like (or understand, if you're going with TV-Nihon) but I thought it was a very fun series.

Goseiger.. I liked to begin with. I thought the suit designs were nice, the story was pretty interesting and the idea of using cards to give them different powers was a fantastic idea. I even thought the idea of the headers, to create a customisable mecha was a cool idea.. But none of it really came together, the show makes really poor use of what it has. The cards aren't used in an interesting way and the characters have zero development, showing almost random interests episode after episode and only ever winning the day because "we have to believe!".

The show isn't hated because it came after Shinkenger, it was just a poor show. The only redeeming features are Goseiknight and the villains. This is one show where I'm sure the American adaption will be a lot better, since they can take the ideas and actually do something with them.
 

mr.smith10

Member
Goseiger.. I liked to begin with. I thought the suit designs were nice, the story was pretty interesting and the idea of using cards to give them different powers was a fantastic idea. I even thought the idea of the headers, to create a customisable mecha was a cool idea.. But none of it really came together, the show makes really poor use of what it has. The cards aren't used in an interesting way and the characters have zero development, showing almost random interests episode after episode and only ever winning the day because "we have to believe!".

The show isn't hated because it came after Shinkenger, it was just a poor show. The only redeeming features are Goseiknight and the villains. This is one show where I'm sure the American adaption will be a lot better, since they can take the ideas and actually do something with them.

That is assuming that Saban can hire tolerable actors that don't screw the show up. So far under the Lynn-less Tzachor (Wild Force and Samurai), Tzachor hasn't shown he even knows what good acting is.
 
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Tokuboy

Kuuguitar
That is assuming that Saban can hire tolerable actors that screw the show up. So far under the Lynn-less Tzachor (Wild Force and Samurai), Tzachor hasn't shown he even knows what good acting is.

Not to mention mindless plot copy-pasting. Watching Gaoranger after Wild Force really showed me that there wasn't much to miss, and Wild Force's only advantages relative to Gaoranger were the teamup episodes.

Also, solid points about Goseiger there Lynx. I think it's no surprise that Alata and GoseiKnight seem to be the only interesting characters so far.
 

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