[DISCUSSION] Kamen Rider Zi-O, Episode 48

[SamuraiEchidna]

The time has come to be afraid...

Welcome to the discussion thread for Kamen Rider Zi-O, episode 48; "2068: Oma Time".
(Episode title's translation may vary depending on your fansub group of choice.)
This week: As Earth is subjected to a mass convergence with the A.R. Worlds and his friends continue to fight Swartz and the influx of past monsters, Sougo realizes he is the epicenter of the chaos and travels to 2068 to settle things with Oma Zi-O in a final confrontation.

This thread was made with Toku Prime's permission. And remember, this is a SPOILER ZONE! If you are trying to avoid spoilers, this is not the place for you.
HOWEVER! This is not the place discuss future episodes nor next-episode previews. You may discuss previous episodes and related subjects, but stick to the episode at hand. Please be considerate of those who haven't watched ahead yet. Thank you.​

 

[bakura23]

so somethings been getting me thinking, tsukasa said that the riders were originaly in separate world's but because of the powers sough got in 2009 (the year decade came on tv) the world's slowly combined. does this mean those wern't A.R.world's but all this time the riders were originally in there own world's until 2009 and that's why we started seeing crossovers after 2009?

 

[raden238]

This episode was just a mess. The cliffhanger from last week's episode, showed so much promise. It was intense with all those Rider monsters returning and then it just abruptly stops.

I don't even understand why they bother bringing back Chase this late into the show and having a mirrored death to Drive? It amounts to nothing.

Then we got that scene where Sougo and his Uncle have that intimate moment, where Sougo finally tells him that he is a Kamen Rider. From the past 47 episodes, no where has Sougo or his Uncle even hinted at his identity. If they played up the story and plot point, I can see this being pretty emotional and good. But instead it just feels tacked as filler. Like what did that scene even accomplish?

Finally, we got Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi. She is somehow the key to saving the space and time? How and Why did she get to be a Rider? I don't expect the last episode to even address everything. As Japaneseseriesfan said in the Zi-O thread, it doesn't make sense. How is she able to fight? Just because you have powers, doesn't automatically make you a good fighter.

A lot of the cameos and references from the Legend Riders are great for nostalgic sake. But Toei just seems to care more about bringing them back and making references, just so fans can cheer thinking they haven't forgotten about the past. Decade and Diend are the only Legend Riders they did a good job with. Furthering their characters for a narrative and not just tacking them onto the show for sake of doing it.

so somethings been getting me thinking, tsukasa said that the riders were originaly in separate world's but because of the powers sough got in 2009 (the year decade came on tv) the world's slowly combined. does this mean those wern't A.R.world's but all this time the riders were originally in there own world's until 2009 and that's why we started seeing crossovers after 2009?

It's a separate multiverse. Decade's story in 2009 still happened in it's own universe and Zi-O's universe had its own mutiverse for the Heisei Riders. There is an A.R. world for every Rider in existence, past or future. Some with different outcomes as explained in Zi-O episode 45-46?

 

[bakura23]

It's a separate multiverse. Decade's story in 2009 still happened in it's own universe and Zi-O's universe had its own mutiverse for the Heisei Riders. There is an A.R. world for every Rider in existence, past or future. Some with different outcomes as explained in Zi-O episode 45-46?

still confused mostly. this is what i used to believe before zi-o. all the rider's history took place in one world https://kamenrider.fandom.com/wiki/World_of_Kamen_Rider (apart from build which was established took place in it's own world) and in 2009 tsukasa who lived in this prime world was told by wataru to go to the alternate worlds (like kiva world where wataru is a child) and that's how the multiverse worked a main world for all the rider's plus an alternate world for an individual parallel rider. now with zi-o to me the way tsukasa explained it to sougo it sounded like the main world kamen rider's originally lived in there own worlds but in 2009 sougo accidentally resulted in the worlds slowly combining. fast forward to now and as the worlds as slowly combined it's now easier to find the rider's through time travel as there all in one place.

that was my understanding given what tsukasa said and would be a nice reference if anything to the fact that in heisei phase 1 was believed that the rider's story's were in there own universe (ignoring den-o and kiva). your quote however confuses me as it suggest's that decade and sougo were on different world's when everything in 2009 happened, i'm saying that what sougo did was a slow process of what would eventually result in time being changed 10 years later.

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

Back at it again with more Zi-O love, just to spite the haters.

ATTENTION EVERYONE!
Due to unavoidable changes in my personal life, this will be the last series I'll be posting episode discussions for. I am currently looking for someone else to take up the mantle in my stead.​

Consider this my two weeks notice, or one week depending on how you look it at it. I am about to become a lot less active here. For now, I'll finish posting episode discussions for Zi-O, and I might post a discussion for the last Zi-O movie, but that's it. I'll try to find time to post my thoughts on all the remaining episodes, but after that, I'll be stepping down to focus on what's really important in my life. Just wanted to make sure everyone is updated.

Now that I’ve got that out of the way...

You’re a Kamen Rider! You’re a Kamen Rider! Everybody’s a Kamen Rider!

Heh, when else am I going to get a chance to use that meme?
I love this episode. I can’t wait to see Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi put her bother in his place.
Interesting trivia note: Anyone notice that Another Decade’s pink is not magenta like the original Decade? Now that I’ve seen them back-to-back, it’s clear that Another Decade’s pink is actually the same shade as Zi-O’s. Nice touch, really.

Finally, we got Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi. She is somehow the key to saving the space and time? How and Why did she get to be a Rider? I don't expect the last episode to even address everything. As Japaneseseriesfan said in the Zi-O thread, it doesn't make sense.

[...]

It's a separate multiverse. Decade's story in 2009 still happened in it's own universe and Zi-O's universe had its own mutiverse for the Heisei Riders. There is an A.R. world for every Rider in existence, past or future. Some with different outcomes as explained in Zi-O episode 45-46?

I can at least agree with you that it is odd that Sougo had a blank watch that became just what Tsukuyomi needed. Would have been more accurate for Tsukuyomi herself to make the watch and summon her own timeline-saving powers. Despite how other people have accused this show of lazy writing, I disagree. Where I stand, it's unnecessarily complex and a little convoluted, but I wouldn't say lazy. They saved some things for the finale that should have been built upon sooner, and now they are rapid-firing some things since the show is ending. Really, Zi-O needed about two more episodes to make everything work better.

But I quoted you to help answer bakura23...

so somethings been getting me thinking, tsukasa said that the riders were originaly in separate world's but because of the powers sough got in 2009 (the year decade came on tv) the world's slowly combined. does this mean those wern't A.R.world's but all this time the riders were originally in there own world's until 2009 and that's why we started seeing crossovers after 2009?

If I had to make sense of it, I'd say that you can have both. As raden238 was trying to point out, the multiverse is unlimited. There are more parallels than what's actually on screen. You can have an Earth Prime where nearly all Kamen Riders share the same Earth, and a multiverse where each Kamen Rider is the only hero of that parallel Earth. You can even have A.R. exclusive Riders like Decade, or Kabuto apparently. The TV show is confusing now because it's trying to do both at the same time. It's trying to say there is an endless multiverse with countless parallels near the finale, while the beginning of the show reinforced that almost all these Kamen Riders were from Earth Prime. Multiverse and Time Travel can sometimes be synonymous with each other, depending on the circumstances, but this still too much.

This is one time where you really can't have it both ways. Like I said, I won't call it lazy story writing, but it's getting pretty bad. Especially when you consider that this episode is implying that maybe Sougo is not from Earth Prime, but rather from a parallel Earth. In other words, he might be an A.R. exclusive Rider that is living out a fate similar to what Decade went through. That really changes the narrative of the first few episodes of this show. It's not completely out of the question, but for once I'll admit, it's extremely inconsistent with what the show has been going for all this time. I'm racking my brain just trying to make sense of it. So if you're confused, don't worry, you're not the only one.

 

[Japaneseseriesfan]

You know, editing my name out and changing it to "other people" just to not cause a response wasn't gonna help right? You might as well just keep it in there. I'm not "accusing" the show for lazy writing, I'm calling lazy writing what it is. The show is not a person, even saying I "accused" it is kind of wrong. Also, I didn't just start saying it was lazy writing just last episode. I've been saying it as early as the show was around a few episodes in. Just because you don't see it as lazy writing, doesn't mean it's not valid to call it lazy either. Again, this is just creative writing knowledge 101. Something you seem to not understand that if you lack, you can't exactly call something "great" because you aren't aware of the metrics used in the practice of criticism.

You might not care for criticism, but trust me, it's a thing. And this isn't even being "elitist" either. This is just me, speaking from an informed point of view. Zi-O isn't complex and convoluted because it has to be, it's needlessly extraneous.

 

[SamuraiEchidna]

You know, editing my name out and changing it to "other people" just to not cause a response wasn't gonna help right? You might as well just keep it in there.

I edited out your name because I didn't want to be rude and single you out, especially when other people might have the same opinion as you. You're welcome.

 

[Hangyakuno]

About Ridewatch.
Just my thought, but I think Ridewatch is a device which used part of person soul to create Rider Power. Sometimes it create new rider like Sougo and Tsukuyomi, sometime it pull off evil power and create Another Rider.
So Tsukasa plan as always put percentage at 50:50 succeful attempt while give the risk to another person. That is how bad his personality.

Every series was have their own timeline while movie trying hard to make a link between 2 series which only work inside movie. I don't know why we have to think hard about their continuity while every writer never try to link their series with previous series. Most of it just take a bit part of previous series, put it in their series without any use of it and treat it like they already prove their continuity. Therefore came Kamen Rider Decade, blatantly call it parallel world for every Rider Series and every retcon of them just like Paraller Rider World in his own series. So I think every Rider in Zi-O series was also from parallel world, while Zi-O power which happened because Geiz and Tsukuyomi try to reverse the future, instead attract other parallel world since eps 1 thus create a new Zi-O World. Just like Natsumi World was turn to Decade World because Tsukasa get back his power in that world.