Welcome to the discussion thread for Kamen Rider Zi-O, episode 33; "2005: Rejoice! Echo! Roar!". (Episode title's translation may vary depending on your fansub group of choice.) This week: Woz struggles to figure out how to properly celebrate Sougo's upcoming birthday as Another Hibiki attacks with Todoroki and the current holder of the Hibiki title dealing with the Another Rider themselves.
This thread was made with Toku Prime's permission. And remember, this is a SPOILER ZONE! If you are trying to avoid spoilers, this is not the place for you.
Not bad & looking forward to the other half, but Black Woz is starting to become a bit of a bad joke, now. I guess they couldn't quite figure out what his place in the show was anymore, aside from just happening to be the third Rider.
Watching this, I wondered if they had originally intended for Asumu to be the Another Rider of the episode. (Actor Rakuto Tochihara has retired.) I think that would have been a pretty interesting idea -- the Time Jackers track Asumu down, and he has some resentment buried about not becoming Hibiki's apprentice, and that fuels the power of Another Hibiki.
Kyousuke, I was hoping would have grown out of being such a curt jerk, but I'm waiting to see the second part of the episode. The preview kind of hints that he might just feel guilty and conflicted, that he doesn't feel worthy of being Hibiki. (And certainly doesn't feel worthy since he drove a potential apprentice to a place where they became Another Rider.) So, imagine if Asumu was the Another Hibiki. This could have been a neat little tie-up of the Hibiki series; all these years, fans have hated Kiriya becoming the next Hibiki over Asumu, but this scenario could have shown that, yes, while Asumu really wanted it, maybe it was for the best he decided to live his own life and maybe Kiriya IS a more worthy successor than you originally thought -- it would be Asumu and the audience coming to accept the decision of Kiriya becoming Hibiki.
Todoroki had a bit of a thankless role here. I liked that he spilled the beans and kinda shared the audience viewpoint -- "That guy ain't Hibiki." I have to say, I'm glad it's Todoroki in this episode and not Ibuki. (And it could have easily been Ibuki since he was just doing Ryusoulger.) Todoroki had a bigger story in Hibiki and is more notable, as someone who we saw in the show go from apprentice to taking over for his master.
The Hibiki stuff is the only good stuff in the episode. All of that junk with Woz trying to find a way to celebrate Sougo's birthday was painfully unfunny -- he's SO obnoxious, his shtick is old, and the show devotes far too much time to him. And he gets to be a Rider on top of it! That's just so messed up.
^not being funny is what Kento Shimoyama does. Ninninger more than indicates this.
I have to say I kinda liked that Asumu didn't become Oni at the end. It's been a while since i've seen show I admit, but I don't remember him really well... wanting to become one. It's more that his attachment to Hibiki (and later comptetion with Kiriya over his attention) that drove him down the Oni road. And Asumu realizing it and choosing to do what HE wants with life INSTEAD of trying to become like his mentor was the best lesson Hibiki could have taught him. "You don't have to be like me. You be you, kid."
^not being funny is what Kento Shimoyama does. Ninninger more than indicates this.
I have to say I kinda liked that Asumu didn't become Oni at the end. It's been a while since i've seen show I admit, but I don't remember him really well... wanting to become one. It's more that his attachment to Hibiki (and later comptetion with Kiriya over his attention) that drove him down the Oni road. And Asumu realizing it and choosing to do what HE wants with life INSTEAD of trying to become like his mentor was the best lesson Hibiki could have taught him. "You don't have to be like me. You be you, kid."
Hey, I found some parts of Ninninger funny. (But it might have more to do with the cast than the scripts.)
Asumu not ending up Hibiki's apprentice might have ended up working for what the replacement staff was doing, but it definitely strayed from what the show had originally set out to do. Inoue obviously had some contempt for the show's concept and Asumu, so he favored his little bastard creation over the kid who was the show's real star. It was all about Asumu! Inoue's the one who started making him look a little bad, like he was wishy-washy and just following Hibiki to follow him. The original staff had it be that Asumu got swept up in his world and found his place and was eventually going to be, if not Hibiki's apprentice, then at least a part of Takeshi in some way.
And before I get yelled at for going off-topic on this dead forum that doesn't have much activity, I'll point this out about Zi-o -- notice how the show's so lazy it ignores what Hibiki establishes when Todoroki untransforms -- he's just back in his civilian clothes! They either didn't want to take the time to put Kawaguchi in the Todoroki suit and/or modify it for his current measurements or didn't want to explain why Todoroki might have been naked.
With Kyousuke still called as Kyousuke after 14 years, is it mean he still have not his own oni name? Hibiki was second oldest Oni after Zanki, and he still not given up the name until now.
I hope even though they can't bring back Asumu, Kyousuke will make subtle reference to him or Hibiki. Like his doctor friend or his old teacher scold him for his lack of discipline when training his pupil. I mean why the hell Tsutomu mention his meeting with Hibiki and still become pupil of nameless Oni? I'm sure Kyousuke told fake Oni name to Tsutomu, and when Tsutomu find out about that was what make him fall into despair.
Nah, this episode wasn't written by Shimoyama, but by Nobuhiro Mouri (Kyuranger). Shomoyama will probably stay out for two months since he's writing the movie and the same thing happened back before the Winter movie (he's also the main writer of an anime running right now).
I had to giggle a bit when Kyousuke said that Oni "celebrate nature". Like, seriously? Their job was to go around and (in Hibiki's case quite literally) beat to death any nature spirits that attempted to fight back against humanity's environmental destruction.
I suppose I should give him some slack for not remembering. It looks like he never completed his training based upon what Todoroki said. Which isn't surprising; IIRC Kyousuke always saw the Oni as being heroes while Hibiki himself had a more blue-collar attitude to his work. It always seemed to me as if there was going to be a moment of disillusionment in his future.
Sorry for being late to the party, everyone. I got SUPER busy last week, not to mention I binged my way through some Ace Attorney games, and had sudden family matters coming up. Just didn't have time to watch tokusatsu and express my thoughts. But now that all that's out of the way...
I have to say, as people have said, the Hibiki stuff really is the most interesting thing so far. It's clear that they aren't going to try and make it shaded or gritty like the first half of the Hibiki TV show was filmed. But in some ways, I'm okay with that. I didn't expect them to bring the white Oni suit out of retirement, so it was nice to see it shot in a visually clear way. And yeah, not many people care for Kyosuke, I know. But despite his attitude, I like how he is basically the opposite of the previous Hibiki. The first one was easy-go-lucky, this one is very serious. The first one wasn't in a hurry to get an apprentice, this one was happy to get one even before fully becoming Hibiki himself. Usually people master their skills before teaching it to someone new, but whatever, story telling! Almost makes you wonder how he got gear from Takeshi if he's considered the black sheep of the foundation...
And can we please just agree that Todoroki is the true bad ass? Stayed with the franchise after all this time, even after the show changed directions back in the day, and is still showing the pretty-boy actors how to really kick some major ass!
Not bad & looking forward to the other half, but Black Woz is starting to become a bit of a bad joke, now. I guess they couldn't quite figure out what his place in the show was anymore, aside from just happening to be the third Rider.
One episode, and all ready people are saying the worst about Woz... It's not that the show writers don't know what to do with him, rather his roll has all ready been redefined. His mission was to just make sure Sougo became Oma Zi-O as soon as possible. However, after constant resistance from both Sougo, Geiz, and Tsukuyomi, it's been made clear that Sougo is never going to become the overlord that Woz remembers. And so he's making peace with that, because at least in this timeline, he has friends. The previous episodes established this.
And before I get yelled at for going off-topic on this dead forum that doesn't have much activity, I'll point this out about Zi-o -- notice how the show's so lazy it ignores what Hibiki establishes when Todoroki untransforms -- he's just back in his civilian clothes! They either didn't want to take the time to put Kawaguchi in the Todoroki suit and/or modify it for his current measurements or didn't want to explain why Todoroki might have been naked.
I'm not going to yell at you or anyone. I might KINDLY suggest to stay on topic, but it's not like I'm an admin or anything. However! If you are going to talk about off-topic stuff, at least use the Spoiler tag. Like this...
Giving a proper reply to your statement, going naked isn't the default when an Oni Rider undoes their transformation. That was reserved for when they can't fully control their powers or when their control gets extremely interrupted. Case in point, in the TV show, it only happened under two circumstances: When the Rider was a rookie transforming for the first time, or when the Rider was beaten so badly that they were killed or almost killed. With proper training, any Oni Rider could learn to turn back into a human and still keep their clothes on.
In this episode, Todoroki was hurt in battle, but he wasn't even knocked out. So there would be no reason for him to go naked. It would have been nice to see him go helmetless (or maskless, whatever you want to call it), but I'll accept the standard turning full human again.
Sorry for being late to the party, everyone. I got SUPER busy last week, not to mention I binged my way through some Ace Attorney games, and had sudden family matters coming up. Just didn't have time to watch tokusatsu and express my thoughts. But now that all that's out of the way...
I have to say, as people have said, the Hibiki stuff really is the most interesting thing so far. It's clear that they aren't going to try and make it shaded or gritty like the first half of the Hibiki TV show was filmed. But in some ways, I'm okay with that. I didn't expect them to bring the white Oni suit out of retirement, so it was nice to see it shot in a visually clear way. And yeah, not many people care for Kyosuke, I know. But despite his attitude, I like how he is basically the opposite of the previous Hibiki. The first one was easy-go-lucky, this one is very serious. The first one wasn't in a hurry to get an apprentice, this one was happy to get one even before fully becoming Hibiki himself. Usually people master their skills before teaching it to someone new, but whatever, story telling! Almost makes you wonder how he got gear from Takeshi if he's considered the black sheep of the foundation...
And can we please just agree that Todoroki is the true bad ass? Stayed with the franchise after all this time, even after the show changed directions back in the day, and is still showing the pretty-boy actors how to really kick some major ass!
One episode, and all ready people are saying the worst about Woz... It's not that the show writers don't know what to do with him, rather his roll has all ready been redefined. His mission was to just make sure Sougo became Oma Zi-O as soon as possible. However, after constant resistance from both Sougo, Geiz, and Tsukuyomi, it's been made clear that Sougo is never going to become the overlord that Woz remembers. And so he's making peace with that, because at least in this timeline, he has friends. The previous episodes established this.
I'm not going to yell at you or anyone. I might KINDLY suggest to stay on topic, but it's not like I'm an admin or anything. However! If you are going to talk about off-topic stuff, at least use the Spoiler tag. Like this...
Giving a proper reply to your statement, going naked isn't the default when an Oni Rider undoes their transformation. That was reserved for when they can't fully control their powers or when their control gets extremely interrupted. Case in point, in the TV show, it only happened under two circumstances: When the Rider was a rookie transforming for the first time, or when the Rider was beaten so badly that they were killed or almost killed. With proper training, any Oni Rider could learn to turn back into a human and still keep their clothes on.
In this episode, Todoroki was hurt in battle, but he wasn't even knocked out. So there would be no reason for him to go naked. It would have been nice to see him go helmetless (or maskless, whatever you want to call it), but I'll accept the standard turning full human again.
Most likely, Kyosuke is a portrait how usually a rookie Oni behave. Todoroki once behave like this, worrying and hesitating. Atleast, Kyosuke dare to didn't always depend to his teacher without throw out his own objective to become Oni like Akira.
I don't recall if Oni ever untransform to their civilian clothes after fight in original series. Mostly they skipped time and that Oni already in another place with new clothes like in episode 3 or above when Hibiki fight Jiraigumo while escort Asumu and his cousin or after the fight they are just revert back only head part with their body still in Oni Form. If you kindly give me specific episode which show Oni immediately turn back to civilian clothes after the fight.
As far I know, when they transform into Oni, their own elemental power will destroy their clothes. That is why they usually bring supporter or backpack full of supplies. In Todoroki case, lightning will shred and burn his clothes. They show process when their clothes destroyed more clearly with Todoroki and Zanki because lightning not fully distorting view of their body unlike fire or wind elemental. Hibiki alternate dimension in Decade series still have this as their gimmick, maybe because there is not much change to actor after 4 year of series.
I agree if Zi-O have not enough time to make new measurement for Todoroki costume. Although, they actually can go with skipping untransformed scene and immediately change location.
Woz in this episode, no, even from Agito episode, already turn to become comic relief character like Rogue in Build series. I don't know if Geiz can keep up with him, because lately he even get less important dialogue out of three.
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