The Inconvenient Truth: Kamen Rider Build is the worst toku in history

A simple passerby...
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I agree with Dr Kain, your taste in Rider is just ****. Drive was one of the more subpar entries in Rider I've ever seen. And THAT was episodic.

Trying to be artsy? It was Guerilla Filmmaking. It worked well to Kuuga's favor. I'm not even defending it because I saw Kuuga as a 5 year old, and grew up with Toku, I'm defending it because it was wise use of technique to display movement in a way that brought intensity.

I don't know why, but I feel like you're one of those people who just have a poor knack of understanding of filmmaking and creativity in general to even say Wizard was a good show. That was a pile of **** that aired during my senior year in High School and felt like a cash grab to try and be like Kuuga given how it started the trend of many forms = many figure sales, without even utilizing those forms properly in the show itself.

There is a way of mixing comedy with seriousness. You said you don't read manga, fair enough. You might not even watch anime, that's fine (assumption here). But then that means you've only been invested in Toku and almost nothing else that came from Japanese media, and probably grew up on mostly American Television. Which is probably where the problem lies. I've seen things I can relate with on both ends, but I understand why people on the western end won't get if you only have that perspective. I grew up in an internationally diverse community. I can make that shift between Eastern and Western thinking. It just feels to me like you're limited to what you liked and were influenced by to appreciate the bigger picture of it all.
 
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There's a reason I dropped Drive after like episode 23.
You missed out bigly.
Nexus is also not even remotely story driven. It's all episodic
That simply isn't correct, Nexus was very plot driven.
Now you're clearly trolling as those abominations were easily Gaim's worst episodes.
I don't troll, it's the truth.
Your taste in rider shows suck ass.
No need to hurl insults there, doc.
It was Guerilla Filmmaking.
Just because it has a name and style doesn't mean it will always work.
You might not even watch anime, that's fine (assumption here).
That is not correct.
It just feels to me like you're limited to what you liked and were influenced by to appreciate the bigger picture of it all.
I have an open mind, I am also able to point to something and just call the spade a spade.
 
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Eh, some of the points I agree with. A lot of them I don't ('Be The One' is a banger & has been appearing regularly in my Spotify playlists). But I can't knock the Cap'n for having an opinion. Heck, I've been in that place where it seems as if everyone loves a show that I really didn't enjoy. *cough* Agito *cough*

What I will say is, the more toku I see that aren't made by Toei the more I appreciate how they always get the technical aspects of a show down to a tee and how slickly presented everything they do is. So even if I don't like a particular season, I couldn't call any Rider (or Sentai) the worst ever.

Anyway, isn't it a strength of the franchise that different entries cater to different tastes? If they were all very similar it probably would have died off long ago (see how Showa Rider never managed more than five consecutive years at best).
One of the worst protagonists in Takkeru, who's fate went against everything the lore was about. (How can you be a Ghost Rider, if you're not dead and why would he chose to come back to life instead of helping others?).
I've heard things like this quite a lot and I don't really understand it? Takeru's goal all along was to return to life and the series ends with him achieving that goal. At no point do they say that him being dead was a requirement for him to transform (and of course Specter uses the same Driver despite being alive the whole time).

The crossover film with Drive, on the other hand, made no sense. The moral of the film is that you can't cheat death, you just have to accept it, and if that's the case what is even the point of the series this movie's based on?!
Are toku fans just not familiar with what Kamen Rider is supposed to be about?
Maybe I've just become too cynical but I'm pretty sure Kamen Rider is "supposed to be about" making big stacks of cash for Toei and Bandai. Anything beyond seems like wishful thinking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
...with the Vernage plot that went nowhere...
I just wanted to pick this out as while I agree I also think that was beyond their control.

IIRC about six months ago the actress who provided Vernage's voice announced that she was dealing with an illness and on her doctor's recommendation she was completely withdrawing from all work commitments in order to focus on her recovery, which was expected to take several months. She cancelled live appearances, characters she played in anime series were to be recast, everything. So I suspect any plans they had for Vernage had to be dropped too.
 
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Dr Kain

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They could have just recast Vernage. It wouldn't be the first time Toei did a **** you to a show by changing cast members halfway through. At least in this case she was nothing more than a voice. That is the easiest thing to recast. Homer Simpson she ain't.

As for Agito, I can totally understand if someone doesn't like the show. I loved it, as it has some of the best character growth for any rider ever, and it has a different feel compared to its brethren, but it's also slow moving. If you are looking for an all action ride, Agito is definitely not the place to go.

Captain, yet again there is NOTHING that makes Nexus a fully plot driven show. Yes, it does have multi-part episodes, but you could cut out most of the entire last arc and nothing will have changed with the show's plot. Nexus is wonderful, however, it is not even remotely close to being full of a plot as you make it out to be. If you get down to it, you could shave off around 20 episodes of its 37 and not feel like you missed a thing. With Build, if you even miss one episode, you will be lost.
 
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I don't read manga so you're likely right and they just don't translate into toku.

I haven't read much of the manga either, but politics has been in Kamen Rider since the original show. What do you think Shocker, et al are from the Showa era? They're the Cold War era leftist/Tojoist terrorists from the 60s through the 80s in a superhero setting, with ties to secret societies/New World Order types. The Heisei shows that feature formal organizations are a reflection of the modern Bilderbergers, the global tech giants, and "shadow governments", trading in bombs for clean pressed suits and control of the masses through technology and other means. There may not be as much emphasis on these aspects of Heisei shows, or they may not always be written well, but they're there nonetheless.

I have some more to say about Phase 2 Heisei Rider in general. I've pinpointed the main problems with the past decade:

- Far too much wacky anime-style hijinks. Sorry, some things just don't translate into a live-action format. Shark brought up tonal whiplash: Phase 2 is chock full of tonal whiplash, going from serious to stupid hijinks to serious again in just one scene at times. Most of the characters who engage in this stuff tend to be the people the heroes hang out with or have tag along with them. Shunpei from Wizard, Drive's SCU, Takeru/Ghost's friends, Poppy and Hiiro's dad from Ex-Aid, all of them are awful and a pain to watch.

- Not going far enough with the material. All of the Phase 2 shows, even the bad ones, have had some really good and interesting ideas. The problem is that Toei doesn't develop them to their fullest potential, likely out of some desire to keep the show light in tone and play it safe. This ends up hurting the story a lot of the time. In Fourze we see a high school run by an alien-worshiping cult that's looking for new recruits. Some of the students are even willing to go along with it, like Ares, Cancer and even Aquarius. That's creepy. It was a Liveman-style setup. But there's very little emphasis placed on this, for the sake of showing Yuki's latest bout of insanity and "Ucchhuuuuu Kittaaaaaaa!", and the Horoscopes get relegated to MOTW status to rush them through. Ghost had its Buddhist themes, which were done well with Alain and Fumi, and Onari and Javert. But most of the time Onari is a complete idiot who gets into dumb arguments with Akari over SCIENCE! vs PARANORMAL! Drive had all the potential to be Phase 2's Agito. Instead we got the SCU.

- Poor writing of otherwise interesting characters. Gaim is among the best of Phase 2, but one of its problems was the way Kaito/Baron was written. Here's a guy who is obsessed with having power yet at the same time hates the fact that he thinks he needs it to survive, and so in his youthful naivete wants to recreate the world so that he can achieve utopia. That's a complex hero. But most of the time, Kaito is portrayed like a stereotypical anime rival, the guy who is a loner jerk for no reason and is obsessed with winning at all costs. It's like watching a parody of Seto Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh (based on the reviews of Yu-Gi-Oh media I've seen).

Ex-Aid is even worse. All of its heroes are written like Kaito. They're all anime cliches! It's really irritating to watch, especially with Tojo/Snipe and Hiiro/Brave, because there's more to them than just going "You suck Emu, I don't like you, go away, I'm awesome."

- Obnoxious merchandising. The talking belts and gears used to be cool in Phase 1 Heisei. Now they never shut the hell up, and don't even say anything useful on top of it. Some of the Riders' gadgets don't even pretend to be anything but toys. It wasn't too bad in W and Fourze, where the only problem was repeating things twice. But OOO and then Wizard onward took it to new levels with a whole song-and-dance number played during henshins and attacks. Then there's all the Legend Rider stuff shoved into the Movie War series or the SHTs, that are out of place, poorly introduced, and unnecessary. If there's one thing Toei could learn from Power Rangers, it's that not all of its merchandise has to appear in the show itself.

- Focus on guest characters. I don't know if Den-O or anime is the reason for this, but most of the Phase 2 shows have followed this pattern of a random person being targeted by the villains for something and the hero and friends must chase after that random to keep the villains from doing something. With W and Fourze at least, the random people were the villains. But Wizard, Drive, Ghost, and Ex-Aid revolve all around this guest character and devote less time to the main cast. Even hearing the heroes' tag-a-longs explain to civvies that "You are targetted by X and we must keep Y from happening" is tedious and makes them sound like loons.

W, Gaim and Build aren't perfect. But out of Phase 2, they did the best job with what they had to work with. Even Build's soundtrack has pieces that feel "conspiratorial". These shows really do feel like a real attempt to be as true to Ishinomori's vision (or nightmares) as possible. I don't hate shows like Ex-Aid, Fourze or OOO, but they just didn't go as far as the others.

EDIT: I don't know if Amazons is included in Phase 2, but I should also mention it as another good show.
 
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Dr Kain

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Yeah, if there is one thing I really hate in Toku shows, it is an incompetent police force, which was quite rampant in the Neo-Heisei stuff.

I disagree about the OOO belt though. That is hands down the best Kamen Rider belt ever.

On the other hand, I agree that W is the best show of the Neo-Heisei, followed by Gaim, but I would include OOO before Build. OOO did make a few missteps (like putting Ura on the back burner as the villain for that stupid puppet dummy), but it was still a satisfying show in the end.
 
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Forgive me if I just skim through this topic without reading every last sentence.
That being said, Captain Shark, I honestly don't know what you're trying to accomplish by making this topic. And I doubt most of the people replying here are going to help. We're all just beating rocks against a brick wall here.

Captain Shark, you may have some valid points. As much as I loved and will defend Build as one of the better shows of Neo Heisei, I'm not so happy about it that I'd call it perfect. But you've also made points that are based purely on your personal feelings. No one has a right or wrong opinion, regardless of how much your opinion may or may not align with the general consensus. And because of that, I don't think it was necessary to make a topic about this. There's all ready a topic thread for the last episode of Build. And if you're holding firm to what you believe, that Build is ****, then there is no conversation to make here. It's a closed matter, and you're not going to change anyone's minds just by starting a big topic about it.

To everyone else, unless you agree with what Captain Shark is saying, I don't think there is much point to posting here. If you disagree, fine. Like I said above, I loved Build. It's the last show I'd ever consider to be the worst (personally, Wizard holds that title in my opinion). But opinions aren't always based in facts, they can also be based in feelings. And feelings are harder to change, even if you can educated the viewer. I don't think Captain Shark wants to be swayed or proven wrong here. Captain Shark isn't asking for help or for feedback, the original post pretty much gives of the vibe "This is how things are, and therefore my word is law." No room for conversation.

But hey, what do I know? I could be wrong. Maybe there is a positive, constructive conversation to be had in all this. Last thing I want to do is censor anybody. I'm just callin' it as I sees it. :cool:
 
Why is every good TV show Cancelled
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It's a pity that you didn't like the Kamen Rider series. If you're right, it might explain why Kamen Rider never caught on in America. :(

I think the show never caught on in the U.S. because toku was relatively ignored until Saban made Power Rangers, their adaptation of Kamen Rider Black was horrendous & since then, the show has often been way too violent and dark to be viable as a children's show under U.S. law, but way too silly to be an adult show. I almost wonder, at times, whether or not that's the reason the show had deliberately tried to be more cartoony in the last 10 years. I still think they could easily just dub it or sub it and either release it straight to DVD or put it on Netflix & it'd probably work out. We already know it has a decent sized fan base. If you can release Sentai on DVD & have decent sales, you ought to be able to do the same for Rider, with it having mostly the same audience here, plus the anime crowd would probably eat it up too.

As to the topic, I have no idea. I haven't even gotten around to Build, yet, but I wanted to see what everyone is talking about. Personally, though, I usually have a somewhat different opinion of Rider than others do. I did just attempt starting Ex-Aid & all I can say is I'm fine with cartoony, as long as the show also takes the drama seriously & the new direction seems to be working fine, so long as they don't get lost somewhere in the middle. Out of all the seasons I've finished-- Kuuga, 555, Kabuto, Kiva, Decade & Gaim-- I'd have to say that Kabuto is, undoubtedly the worst & Gaim was the best, with Kiva taking a hard second. I'm almost done with Ryuki too, so we'll see how that turns out. Kuuga only bothered me because I never figured out what the monsters actually wanted the entire time, other than challenging that Daguva thing, for some unknown reason. 555 was fine, but that cliffhanger is a bit annoying. Kabuto looses track somewhere in the middle and has a horrible finale. Decade was alright for what it was, but didn't get serious until the final episode & if I hadn't looked up some other stuff beforehand, I wouldn't have been able to make heads or tails of it, either.
 
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^ I'm three quarters done with Ex-Aid now. The show improves dramatically in the second half once Kamen Rider Chronicle begins to be played en masse by the public. However it's still hampered by stupid hijinks and anime cliche writing for the heroes. However I will grant that Hiiro does mellow out a bit from the first half and becomes more like how he should've been from the beginning, an older, more grounded mentor-type figure for Emu.

I disagree about the OOO belt though. That is hands down the best Kamen Rider belt ever.

Nope. Not only does is the singing annoying, why on Earth would a belt made in medieval Europe be speaking Japanese in the first place? In fact, why involve Europe at all? The first OOO and the medals could've been created by Japanese alchemists/sorcerers/whatever. Then the shogun from the movie could've had some actual relation to OOO's past instead of just another excuse for Toei to use its feudal Edo set.

I also don't care for the transparency of the medals. Solid metal would've looked nicer.

On the other hand, I agree that W is the best show of the Neo-Heisei, followed by Gaim, but I would include OOO before Build. OOO did make a few missteps (like putting Ura on the back burner as the villain for that stupid puppet dummy), but it was still a satisfying show in the end.

Wrong again. OOO is better than Den-O, but not Ryuki or Amazons (I'll compare all of Kobayashi's Riders here.) It may not have dropped the ball as much as Wizard or Ghost, but OOO is still lackluster compared to Build or Gaim or W, or any 1st half Phase 1, from that bad ska punk soundtrack to the Greeds being watered down Grongi to making Kougami a raving loon rather than a competent mastermind. Even the OOO suit is a waste: a chimeric Rider ought to look a lot more bestial, like Gills or the wild Amazons. The SIC versions are how they ought to have looked in the show, not that overly clean suit with all the color on front and nothing in the back.

W, Gaim and Build I rank together. I think even Gaim and Build didn't have as much dumb antics as W did. The stuff they did have felt like they were just there to fill the minimum quota.
 
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Dr Kain

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If you can release Sentai on DVD & have decent sales, you ought to be able to do the same for Rider, with it having mostly the same audience here, plus the anime crowd would probably eat it up too.

Actually, it's not as easy as you would think because Toei wants the same price for the Kamen Rider license that they do for One Piece and Dragonball. That's just too much for smaller companies to spend on such a huge risk.

Nope. Not only does is the singing annoying, why on Earth would a belt made in medieval Europe be speaking Japanese in the first place? In fact, why involve Europe at all? The first OOO and the medals could've been created by Japanese alchemists/sorcerers/whatever. Then the shogun from the movie could've had some actual relation to OOO's past instead of just another excuse for Toei to use its feudal Edo set.

Why do I care about Europe? I'm talking about the belt gimmick itself with the coins. It's by far my favorite system. I don't give a damn who made it in universe. That has nothing to do with the story of the show.

In fact, if I recall, Foundation X made the coins.

Wrong again. OOO is better than Den-O, but not Ryuki or Amazons (I'll compare all of Kobayashi's Riders here.)

Den-O and Ryuki are not Neo-Heisei. I don't even know what you're talking about now. Are you comparing all the Heisei series or just the Neo-Heisei ones? I was solely talking about the Neo-Heisei shows. If I'm talking about the Heisei ones, then duh OOO is not better than Blade, Ryuki, and Agito. Kuuga and Kiva are debatable, but 555, Kabuto, Decade, Hibiki, and Den-O are a given. Though, if Hibiki had not fumbled during its second half, it may have been a top 10 show.
 
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