Why toei use silly items as themes for every neo heisei kamen rider series?

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The only thing I hate about Kamen Rider's toy-driven nature is that it's more MOTIF-driven than ACTION-driven. Take the Fourze Driver and the Astroswitches for example, they're impractical as hell!

yeah that's the problem Both franchise should be entertainment and adventurous not toy driven and motif like i mean It could have been worse FOurze should have use the path gokaiger use like using the previous hero powers heck they should have used the concept of using previous riders powers since it was the anniversary season.


If anything, I think Bandai should look back into Ishinomori's concept art books of Riders (if there is such thing) for future ideas. Chase was a good example (for me) that feels very classic yet with a modern twist in terms of a KR character concept.

Well that's true seems the designers of the kamen rider suits must have been influenced by most of kuugas rejected concept arts by ishinomori himself.


From what I've figured out over watching this stuff for the past few years, Kamen Rider is co-owned by both Toei & Bandai. Bandai provides all the art design, tech & such- at least for the heroes. Whatever writers are hired for Rider that year do have correspondence with Bandai's design team over what they want to do, but things are regularly conflicted because the design team ultimately wants to design things from the perspective of it being a toy & being relatively simple to use, market & understand.

I think the silliness, however, comes from the design team running out of ideas & just jumping for any kind of theme anyone can think of & designing the line around that. Plus, Toei's writers probably aren't helping because they've run out of ideas too & usually seem to just let Bandai call the shots. The exception was Gaim where Urobouchi actually had a decent idea, but I think it backfired in the respect that it was so good, the other writers have just decided they can't possibly top that & have given up. Either that, or they're now trying to save up whatever good ideas they do have to use later.

But, when Bandai gives the writers silly stuff, their first thoughts are silly characters, silly situations &, ultimately, a silly show.


From what i read from from your comment i think that both kamen rider and super sentai should NOT be co-owned by BanDai why? because back in the 70's both franchise weren't co-owned they are just single handedly owned by toei only but nowadays it's now co-owned by a toy company that treated both as if they are like the toys they made but in reality its not ,why can't Toei just single handedly own both franchise not co-owned by bandai like the old days i mean what wrong with having both designers in toei be in charge of the designing and tech not bandai.

Now i know gen urobuchi is known for the dark tones for his anime series but at least his technique works for gaim and doesn't like being troubled by executive meddling and you know what maybe both sentai and kamen rider shows should require professional writers of anime and drama to make good shows like Gen urobuchi for example not by ones who are out of ideas especially by a TOY company.

And you know what If the design team of Bandai wants to design things from the perspective of it being a toy & being relatively simple to use, market & understand then how about they should make a toy and then have a original tokusatsu series revolve around it similar like how bandai wants toei to make a anime series to their product of their Disc wars toyline called Marvel Disk Wars: The Avengers not to kamen rider and super sentai franchise because they are an entertainment franchise not a toy franchise do they look like they based from action figures-NO.
 
Treasure Cards of the Underworld
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Kamen Rider, at the end of the day, IS a 20-minute-toy-commercial. Toei Company is not going to break off of any contracts with Bandai, it'd be too huge a loss of income for them, too huge a financial risk to take at this point in time.

For some of the faults they might have, Bandai in my opinion does create some very impressive toylines out of this stuff, though; some of the work that goes into these things is just breathtakingly amazing (measured by the toys I had as a kid, anyhow :V )
 
Shyni
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why can't Toei just single handedly own both franchise not co-owned by bandai like the old days
Because it's not the 1970s anymore. You can't expect things to work out like they used to. And as Toku Prime pointed out, Showa Rider had a history of coming back and dying multiple times, which they probably would prefer to avoid nowadays.

Now i know gen urobuchi is known for the dark tones for his anime series but at least his technique works for gaim and doesn't like being troubled by executive meddling
I can almost guarantee that Gaim had executive meddling in some extent, even if we don't know the details. There hasn't been a Rider season when the main writer was really in charge for a long time. I think the last one might have been Agito.

and you know what maybe both sentai and kamen rider shows should require professional writers of anime and drama to make good shows like Gen urobuchi for example not by ones who are out of ideas especially by a TOY company.
Um, what? A good deal of the main writers are professionals and have a bunch of non-toy shows to their credit.

And you know what If the design team of Bandai wants to design things from the perspective of it being a toy & being relatively simple to use, market & understand then how about they should make a toy and then have a original tokusatsu series revolve around it similar like how bandai wants toei to make a anime series to their product of their Disc wars toyline called Marvel Disk Wars: The Avengers not to kamen rider and super sentai franchise because they are an entertainment franchise not a toy franchise do they look like they based from action figures-NO.

I don't even
 
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I guess this is why bandai is in charge is choosing the every theme for kamen rider and super sentai shows due to hibiki's troubled production i think.
Not really. Bandai started paying for Rider to be made way back with the ZO movie, and has continued doing so ever since (yes, even with the early Heisei stuff like Kuuga) and has always had the expectation that their investment in the show would allow them to have their merchandise promoted in return.

Hibiki had many problems due to the producer (Shigenori Takatera, who previously produced Kuuga) being unwilling to compromise. Many of those areas were production related; For example shooting so much of the show on location in the mountains was expensive and time consuming, yet he ignored Toei's warning that he was spending too much and nearly missing his deadlines. But one of those areas was supposedly that Bandai weren't really happy with the toy sales and he made it quite clear that he didn't give a stuff about that. Toei fired him and since then has made it very clear to the people working on both Rider and Sentai that they are (and always have been) there to sell toys.
So Bandai also turn ultraman into a toy commercial as well (merchandise driven) because they inserted toy figures and now trading cards into the shows right? I mean past ultraman series didn't repeat that, right?
Well they've always sold toy versions of the Ultras henshin devices and the vehicles used in the series. If you look at stuff like Mebius there are obvious "here look at this toy" moments. So it's not something that has happened to Ultraman overnight. Plus Bandai bought nearly half of the shares in Tsuburaya (the company that makes Ultraman) a while back, and in doing so gave the company the money they needed to pay of their debts that had really being holding them back.
From what I've figured out over watching this stuff for the past few years, Kamen Rider is co-owned by both Toei & Bandai. Bandai provides all the art design, tech & such- at least for the heroes. Whatever writers are hired for Rider that year do have correspondence with Bandai's design team over what they want to do, but things are regularly conflicted because the design team ultimately wants to design things from the perspective of it being a toy & being relatively simple to use, market & understand.
Since the beginning Kamen Rider has always had two owners, Toei and Ishimori Pro - the production company that Shotaro Ishinomori set up to handle his business interests and which is still owned by his family. One of Ishinomori's sons is currently in charge of the company and has made it pretty clear that as long as they keep getting their share of the money the franchise makes he doesn't care what Toei does with it. Bandai don't have any ownership of the franchise. They have to pay a license fee to use the name on their toys. It seems they do indeed do most of the design work, and I suspect Toei is quite happy to let them because otherwise they'd have to pay people to do it themselves.
If anything, I think Bandai should look back into Ishinomori's concept artbooks of Riders (if there is such thing) for future ideas. Chase was a good example (for me) that feels very classic yet with a modern twist in terms of a KR character concept.
I doubt Ishinomori's art is toyetic enough to base an entire series on. Plus we've just recently seen that they feel quite free to re-design his characters - look at Kamen Rider #3 in the recent Taisen film.
Now i know gen urobuchi is known for the dark tones for his anime series but at least his technique works for gaim and doesn't like being troubled by executive meddling and you know what maybe both sentai and kamen rider shows should require professional writers of anime and drama to make good shows like Gen urobuchi for example not by ones who are out of ideas especially by a TOY company.
They do. Until he signed up to do Gaim, Urubuchi was actually one of very few successful anime writers who hadn't done any toku. To give some examples:
  • Toshiki Inoue, the head writer of Agito, Faiz and Kiva, is most famous for being the head writer of the Death Note anime and has worked on many others.
  • Yasuko Kobayashi was the head writer for <deep breath> Gingaman, Timeranger, Kamen Rider Ryuki, Kamen Rider Den-O, Shinkenger, Kamen Rider OOO, Go-Busters and ToQger. She was also the head writer of Attack on Titan, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and the Garo anime.
  • Riku Sanjo worked on Kamen Rider W, Kyoryuger and is currently writing Kamen Rider Drive, and was also the head writer of Digimon Xross Wars.
 
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The relationship is beneficial for Toei, Bandai, Ishinomori Pro. and TV Asahi.
Toei gets to make and produce the show for the big brand franchises, Bandai sponsors money and makes the toys(of course, for profit), TV asahi gets the right to broadcast the franchises and the children's ratings(which still has to compete with othershows targeted at children on other channels).
Production starts at least a year before the air date. They also have to adhere to various expectations and standards(suitable for kids & parents? appealing? how to differentiate from the previous series in the franchise?)
This changes over time. What's suitable for airing 10 years ago might not be suitable for today's standards. It is definitely stricter now than years ago. A lot of thought goes into all the pre-production decisions.
They DO look at trends and surveys to find out what's popular and what not.
eg. Magiranger came on the heels of Harry Potter.
Youkai are featured as enemies in Ninninger because 'Youkai Watch' was a huge hit with kids.


What about the writers?
They ARE professionals..I don't know what you're talking about when you say they're not..?
Many have years of experience and have worked on dramas, anime, etc.
Executive meddling is really inevitable, no matter whether it is an anime or drama...
The writers HAVE to work with the motifs and designs they are given by the production team.
In Gaim's case, the themes and motifs were already decided before Urobuchi started writing.


The actors and actresses. The toku franchises are huge chances for young actors and actresses to make their name more well-known. They go through many rounds of auditions before getting the roles.(according to interviews)
Many of them later go on to be staples in the acting world in dramas and movies(Kaname Jun, Sato Takeru, Suda Masaki etc are all known for their good acting and have been in lots of dramas and movies, and of course variety shows. Fukushi Souta has also recently been making waves for his looks and acting.).
The filming schedule is said to be tough(especially for the leads), with early mornings, having to film both the series and the movies at the same time, and attending events.

The wikipedia articles for each series has a substantial section on the production of said series and there have also been many interviews published every year with the producers, script writers and actors/actresses concerning the behind the scenes(although in Japanese...).
 
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Kamen Rider, at the end of the day, IS a 20-minute-toy-commercial. Toei Company is not going to break off of any contracts with Bandai, it'd be too huge a loss of income for them, too huge a financial risk to take at this point in time.

For some of the faults they might have, Bandai in my opinion does create some very impressive toylines out of this stuff, though; some of the work that goes into these things is just breathtakingly amazing (measured by the toys I had as a kid, anyhow :V )


Yeah but i wanted it to be treated as a tv show not a toy commercials and i understand if toei breaks out with bandai that will cause problems but i think that that toei should be in charge of the production only and let bandai do the merchandising however you might be right they are make good toylines from both shows


Because it's not the 1970s anymore. You can't expect things to work out like they used to. And as Toku Prime pointed out, Showa Rider had a history of coming back and dying multiple times, which they probably would prefer to avoid nowadays.

True but what's wrong with taking the risk.


I can almost guarantee that Gaim had executive meddling in some extent, even if we don't know the details. There hasn't been a Rider season when the main writer was really in charge for a long time. I think the last one might have been Agito.

Well if they said that Agito is to be the last kamen rider series then they should have stick with their own words and make a tokusatsu franchise revolving around bandai's toy instead.



Not really. Bandai started paying for Rider to be made way back with the ZO movie, and has continued doing so ever since (yes, even with the early Heisei stuff like Kuuga) and has always had the expectation that their investment in the show would allow them to have their merchandise promoted in return.

That is true since both toei and Bandai produce both franchise as of today as evident with bandai's logo at the beginning of kamen rider zo movie ,I guess this is the reason why bandai can choose what items will be used for future kamen rider and super sentai series.



Hibiki had many problems due to the producer (Shigenori Takatera, who previously produced Kuuga) being unwilling to compromise. Many of those areas were production related; For example shooting so much of the show on location in the mountains was expensive and time consuming, yet he ignored Toei's warning that he was spending too much and nearly missing his deadlines. But one of those areas was supposedly that Bandai weren't really happy with the toy sales and he made it quite clear that he didn't give a stuff about that. Toei fired him and since then has made it very clear to the people working on both Rider and Sentai that they are (and always have been) there to sell toys.

Well if bandai is there to sell toys how about if toei should cancel both sentai and rider series and just focus originally on a original tokusatsu series which will revolve around their toy with the help of toei to save cost and production.



Well they've always sold toy versions of the Ultras henshin devices and the vehicles used in the series. If you look at stuff like Mebius there are obvious "here look at this toy" moments. So it's not something that has happened to Ultraman overnight. Plus Bandai bought nearly half of the shares in Tsuburaya (the company that makes Ultraman) a while back, and in doing so gave the company the money they needed to pay of their debts that had really being holding them back.
Good point.


Since the beginning Kamen Rider has always had two owners, Toei and Ishimori Pro - the production company that Shotaro Ishinomori set up to handle his business interests and which is still owned by his family. One of Ishinomori's sons is currently in charge of the company and has made it pretty clear that as long as they keep getting their share of the money the franchise makes he doesn't care what Toei does with it. Bandai don't have any ownership of the franchise. They have to pay a license fee to use the name on their toys. It seems they do indeed do most of the design work, and I suspect Toei is quite happy to let them because otherwise they'd have to pay people to do it themselves.

That is true but why can't toei's designers choose a theme and story and let bandai do the merchandising revolve around it.


They do. Until he signed up to do Gaim, Urubuchi was actually one of very few successful anime writers who hadn't done any toku. To give some examples:
  • Toshiki Inoue, the head writer of Agito, Faiz and Kiva, is most famous for being the head writer of the Death Note anime and has worked on many others.
  • Yasuko Kobayashi was the head writer for <deep breath> Gingaman, Timeranger, Kamen Rider Ryuki, Kamen Rider Den-O, Shinkenger, Kamen Rider OOO, Go-Busters and ToQger. She was also the head writer of Attack on Titan, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and the Garo anime.
  • Riku Sanjo worked on Kamen Rider W, Kyoryuger and is currently writing Kamen Rider Drive, and was also the head writer of Digimon Xross Wars.

I knew that because most of the anime writers are considered for both sentai and rider series.

The relationship is beneficial for Toei, Bandai, Ishinomori Pro. and TV Asahi.
Toei gets to make and produce the show for the big brand franchises, Bandai sponsors money and makes the toys(of course, for profit), TV asahi gets the right to broadcast the franchises and the children's ratings(which still has to compete with other shows targeted at children on other channels).
Yes that is true


Production starts at least a year before the air date. They also have to adhere to various expectations and standards(suitable for kids & parents? appealing? how to differentiate from the previous series in the franchise?)
This changes over time. What's suitable for airing 10 years ago might not be suitable for today's standards. It is definitely stricter now than years ago. A lot of thought goes into all the pre-production decisions.

So what's wrong with doing that again ?


They DO look at trends and surveys to find out what's popular and what not.
eg. Magiranger came on the heels of Harry Potter.
Youkai are featured as enemies in Ninninger because 'Youkai Watch' was a huge hit with kids.

That is true if something popular happens both bandai and toei should capture the popularity which interest the children that they will make some shows which revolve around it. I wonder if they would make some sentai and kamen rider shows based on star wars popularity since it will happen in 2016 especially the olympic thing in 2020 and I also wonder why they couldn't come up with something original rather than imitating someone's popularity.


What about the writers?
They ARE professionals..I don't know what you're talking about when you say they're not..?
Many have years of experience and have worked on dramas, anime, etc.
Executive meddling is really inevitable, no matter whether it is an anime or drama...
The writers HAVE to work with the motifs and designs they are given by the production team.
In Gaim's case, the themes and motifs were already decided before Urobuchi started writing.

I see but what if toei chose the writer and ask to come up with a theme to both kamen rider and super sentai that kids will be attracted


The actors and actresses. The toku franchises are huge chances for young actors and actresses to make their name more well-known. They go through many rounds of auditions before getting the roles.(according to interviews)
Many of them later go on to be staples in the acting world in dramas and movies(Kaname Jun, Sato Takeru, Suda Masaki etc are all known for their good acting and have been in lots of dramas and movies, and of course variety shows. Fukushi Souta has also recently been making waves for his looks and acting.).
The filming schedule is said to be tough(especially for the leads), with early mornings, having to film both the series and the movies at the same time, and attending events.

That is true Tokusatsu help launch young actors to their successful career but sometimes audition will be used for unknown young actors who are finding work get their big break rather than the ones coming from talent agency as for the what you are saying about filming schedule that is tough during early mornings yeah i know how that feels to michael j fox when he is doing both acting roles for his film Back to the future and the tv series family ties probably in 1982 and 1983.
 
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The answer to almost all the above is that the current formula for KR has worked for well over a decade. At no point has it gotten to a point that Bandai or Toei had to re-examine their practices, so nothing will change; there is no motivation to "take risks" (as you would put it), because risk is risky :eek: You say "what's wrong with taking risks?" but what is wrong with playing it safe? Will you condemn because they choose not to stake large amounts of money on an untested idea? Does working within a formula guarantee that there is no innovation?

I am sure the people who actually make executive decisions consider retention or appeal, and I am willing to believe that such a large company has the resources and knowledge to make informed decisions (informed for their bottom-line). Above all, you and I are not the target demographic; as consumers our contribution is (and I am guessing here) insignificant. I certainly am not the one that goes to live shows and concerts, buys the pjs, eats the sausages, pays for the movie tickets, or even watches the show when it is broadcasted (since fan subs cut out the advertisements and such). I, a KR enthusiast not located in Asia, am not lost revenue; I am bonus revenue. Their products are not meant to go beyond wherever the show is broadcasted, so if I jump online to buy a DX Driver, that is money is a bonus.

If you personally do not like the direction that KR is heading in, you can skip this series and see if you like the next one. B and T most certainly do try to mix it up, so you may find something you like. So sit back and enjoy it for what it is. Engage in conversations and debate as much as you like, but do consider the points of view of who are creating the content, or even other consumers of the content; should B and T really consider what you want (the non-consumer), as opposed to what 8 year old Japanese children (a target consumer) should want.

With that said, that does not mean you have to approve, or can't analyze or criticize what a business does. I believe that is something any intelligent consumer should do and you are encouraged to do all that. However, the things you expect, in order to make the show enjoyable for you, does require some consideration; to give up a formula that has allowed the companies to make money, in order to continue their business, isn't a direction I see them going in, especially if the expectation comes from someone that has no stake in the company's success. B and T will only seriously re-examine their practices, when their formula fails to meet their bottom line.

Also, the next KR is theorized to be fashion? I am sure that B and T have considered all the variables needed to make this show work, or at least to make money off it. For example, Kill-la-kill is about fabric like aliens, characters wielding over-sized scissors as weapons, etc. I have never watched Kill before, but i know many people that liked it, so there may be something in there that can work as a motif or theme.
 
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Shyni
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Yeah but i wanted it to be treated as a tv show not a toy commercials and i understand if toei breaks out with bandai that will cause problems but i think that that toei should be in charge of the production only and let bandai do the merchandising however you might be right they are make good toylines from both shows

People want a lot of things, doesn't mean we can get them.

True but what's wrong with taking the risk.
You do know that people's jobs and livelihoods depend on this, yes?



Well if they said that Agito is to be the last kamen rider series then they should have stick with their own words
Nobody said Agito was the be the last KR series. What I said was that Agito was the last KR where the writer was actually in charge. It's one of the very few KR shows that credits the writer as "series composer". (note that I'm going by Shougo's post here)

Well if bandai is there to sell toys how about if toei should cancel both sentai and rider series and just focus originally on a original tokusatsu series which will revolve around their toy with the help of toei to save cost and production.
How would cancelling their big name franchises save cost and production?

That is true but why can't toei's designers choose a theme and story and let bandai do the merchandising revolve around it.
Because that's simply not how it works anymore.

So what's wrong with doing that again ?
Because children, audiences and life in general nowadays just don't work the same as the things from many years ago. Is this really hard for you to understand?

I see but what if toei chose the writer and ask to come up with a theme to both kamen rider and super sentai that kids will be attracted
How do you know that's true? How can you say for certain that any of the writers can come up with a gimmick better than Bandai?
 
Guillotine Gorilla
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Kamen Rider, at the end of the day, IS a 20-minute-toy-commercial.

Ever thought that maybe Toei-Bandai is so toyetic is because people keep insisting Kamen Rider is "just a toy commercial" ooooh~~ words actually have power ooooh~~
 
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Messages
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People want a lot of things, doesn't mean we can get them.
True but it has to work.


You do know that people's jobs and livelihoods depend on this, yes?
Good point.




Nobody said Agito was the be the last KR series. What I said was that Agito was the last KR where the writer was actually in charge. It's one of the very few KR shows that credits the writer as "series composer". (note that I'm going by Shougo's post here)

Yes Agito was the last KR series when the writer is in charge but it could have been the last KR series if there aren't who are in charge of future KR and SS series.


How would cancelling their big name franchises save cost and production?
Because if they want to focus on toys then they should focus on toys rather than having toys used as items for both KR and SS so that children will buy them they should have use an original tokusatsu show revolving around their toy so that children will buy it.


Because that's simply not how it works anymore.
Well i think it still works besides every studios around the world does the same thing well almost.


Because children, audiences and life in general nowadays just don't work the same as the things from many years ago. Is this really hard for you to understand?

So you are saying that audiences are not interested from those things 10 years ago they focus on todays things right? if they are not interested in those standards from 10 years ago then they have to try something else rather than the current standards if it's okay for them.


How do you know that's true? How can you say for certain that any of the writers can come up with a gimmick better than Bandai?
Duh cause they are writer and they know how to make good plot points and stories.

The answer to almost all the above is that the current formula for KR has worked for well over a decade. At no point has it gotten to a point that Bandai or Toei had to re-examine their practices, so nothing will change; there is no motivation to "take risks" (as you would put it), because risk is risky :eek: You say "what's wrong with taking risks?" but what is wrong with playing it safe? Will you condemn because they choose not to stake large amounts of money on an untested idea? Does working within a formula guarantee that there is no innovation?

Well i think that both bandai and toei should re examine their practices i mean what wrong with bearing the risks a little change isn't so bad right?

I am sure the people who actually make executive decisions consider retention or appeal, and I am willing to believe that such a large company has the resources and knowledge to make informed decisions (informed for their bottom-line). Above all, you and I are not the target demographic; as consumers our contribution is (and I am guessing here) insignificant. I certainly am not the one that goes to live shows and concerts, buys the pjs, eats the sausages, pays for the movie tickets, or even watches the show when it is broadcasted (since fan subs cut out the advertisements and such). I, a KR enthusiast not located in Asia, am not lost revenue; I am bonus revenue. Their products are not meant to go beyond wherever the show is broadcasted, so if I jump online to buy a DX Driver, that is money is a bonus.

But both Kamen rider and super sentai shows are suppose to entertain children including family members not to be considered as merchandise driven commercials ,I mean merchandising will be sued but it has to slightly reduced as it should focus on entertaining the audience like in the stage shows.

If you personally do not like the direction that KR is heading in, you can skip this series and see if you like the next one. B and T most certainly do try to mix it up, so you may find something you like. So sit back and enjoy it for what it is. Engage in conversations and debate as much as you like, but do consider the points of view of who are creating the content, or even other consumers of the content; should B and T really consider what you want (the non-consumer), as opposed to what 8 year old Japanese children (a target consumer) should want.

Well even though i don't the current direction of both KR and SS shows i'll watch them anyway so to see if they are good or not.

With that said, that does not mean you have to approve, or can't analyze or criticize what a business does. I believe that is something any intelligent consumer should do and you are encouraged to do all that. However, the things you expect, in order to make the show enjoyable for you, does require some consideration; to give up a formula that has allowed the companies to make money, in order to continue their business, isn't a direction I see them going in, especially if the expectation comes from someone that has no stake in the company's success. B and T will only seriously re-examine their practices, when their formula fails to meet their bottom line.

Well i think that the formula should change for better or worse.

Also, the next KR is theorized to be fashion? I am sure that B and T have considered all the variables needed to make this show work, or at least to make money off it. For example, Kill-la-kill is about fabric like aliens, characters wielding over-sized scissors as weapons, etc. I have never watched Kill before, but i know many people that liked it, so there may be something in there that can work as a motif or theme.

Well the reason KIll-la-kill use the theme of fashion because it's considered a affectionate parody of action anime and even action movies plus it pays homage to some of quentin tarantino's movies such as the title and the action and its great using fashion of a KR show is ridiculous unless they give something or a different motif as you said to make it good like maybe a silk worm or a spider that create fiber threads.

Ever thought that maybe Toei-Bandai is so toyetic is because people keep insisting Kamen Rider is "just a toy commercial" ooooh~~ words actually have power ooooh~~

Well i think both kamen rider and suepr sentai series should not treated as toy commercials in the future and you know i were in japan i would put an end to this once and for all.
 
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