I think I'm having a weird mid-life break down...

[KRBlack]

I really am. I remember when I was so excited about Sentai and Toku in general. I loved watching the current episodes and waiting for the next series. Sure they had their goofier moments but the shows had dramatic flare to them; they took themselves seriously.

Then I just got distant from it all. Maybe it was all too silly for me, or maybe I just grew out of it. I don't know. But I still want to be part of it. Every year I keep my eye on the new series coming out and make sure to watch a few episodes just to see if maybe it will rekindle that spark I once had.

So obviously, when learning of Kamen Rider Gaim, I read this bit of interesting information.

Ryuki as an inspiration? Focus on drama? Tired of the "2 rider" default? R U SRS? This is AWESOME! I can't wait to check out this show.

[T-N] Kamen Rider Gaim First Trailer - YouTube

Orange Arms? Banana arms- BANANA ar- Is that asshole a pineapple?

This. is. fucking. stupid.

I damn near cried when I saw this. How are you going to make this a drama? Oh right, I'm supposed to be at the edge of my seat, eyes peeled wide open with my face stuff with popcorn and choking on anticipation when suddenly Fruit Ninja jumps out on the screen and whips out his Banana Sword and Melon shield and does a fucking samba step on the bad guys.

Oh dog, that sounds so god damn thrilli- **** that! **** that ****.

I just don't get it anymore and I realized after watching that youtube video... I think Kamen Rider is dead for me. I don't know if I can get into it anymore if they are seriously going to throw a fruit bowl on top of a man's head and call him a hero.

I'm about to go look into the new episodes of Garo I missed out on and hope it helps me recover.

You're not alone man I'm pretty much in the same boat. I still look up pictures/synopses when new series comes along but I pretty much checked out years ago. The last full tokus I watched were Kiva and Gekiranger.

 

[Hell Kaiser Andy]

I-is that his henshin device...?

We live in the word of "Item that says sounds" gets attached to belt for more sounds with Kamen Rider. It seems to work so well for Bandai since Kyoryuger actually jumped on that train.

 

[Black Fang]

Some numbskull at Bandai goes "Hey, kids like fruit, let's make that the new show!" and they actually listen to him instead of firing his ass or, at the very least, laughing him out of the building and demoting him?

The corporations, man. They control everything. The Bandai-Toei complex is strangeholding the quality of Rider and Sentai.

Kids also like boogers and farts, so is that a possible motif for the next Rider?

Kyoryuger has you beat on that.

BTW, if Kamen Rider wasn't meant to be scary or monstrous, then the "true" Kamen Rider -- created by its creators, Ishinomori and son -- wouldn't have looked like this:

But he has no marketable gimmick! We must pander to the littlest of children in our audience who are into the small collectible toy series fad that's going on, no matter how much it may clash with what the writers and producers may have in mind!

Now cue the people who will throw stupid accusations of "You want Rider and Sentai to be X-rated blood/sex/gore."

The sad thing, though? Toei's eventually going to do something dumber than fruit. I didn't think Kamen Rider could do something stupider than instrument weapons or CD weapons or Pokemon card battles, but those look like nothing compared to some of the stuff the franchise has put out there in the last few years. (Usually all ideas found in Takebe's bad shows -- vending machine bikes, anyone?)

At least some of the Hibiki weapons do look nice. The drumsticks can double as flame swords, Nishiki's triangle is a bo staff, and the guitars are essentially spears/halberd-esque. And the Disc Animals I thought were the only time the cutesy helper bots didn't clash with the rest of the show (they were still useless in a fight though).

As for the vending machine bikes... at least they're a clever way of storing and hiding your vehicles throughout the city for quick access? I was more miffed at the Candroids. Why not conventional weapons that the Kougami soldiers and Goto use, or spare Birth guns and Medaljabulars?

 

[Khaiden]

I dunno, I really doubt Gaim will end up being a series that can support this kind of scene. It's looking pretty likely that the villains will use the same powers as the heroes, so they'll probably already be aware that you can murder the hell out of everything with the right Lock Seed. Anybody laughing at the heroes' appearance would have to be a passerby or maybe a little kid. And that's honestly straying a bit into Akibaranger territory.

Ah, true, true... it's just that playing it completely straight to me treads very closely to ''What do you mean, it's not serious?!''

Funny you should mention Akibaranger like that, a parody of Sentai. A parody Rider once transformed with a wine bottle, wonder how far are we from that now? Yes, I realize that was not your point, just wanted to mention it.

Eh. It seems very presumptuous to me to say that just because all superheroes are at least a little bit ridiculous, they're all equally ridiculous. No, most of the Gaim Riders are just a lot stupider-looking than Spider-Man or Batman, whose costumes tend to be designed by all-time comic book greats.

I meant to say that if you're going to say a superhero based on an insect is ridiculous, at least be consistent with your opinion. I found that argument itself presumptuous so maybe I had to reply with something presumptuous myself. Also, my point about insect-motifs (and not Sage Shinigami's about overall silliness) was not about design, but about concept.

In the original manga, Kamen Rider was a warrior who represented the wrath of nature turning against those who sought to corrupt it for selfish ends. That is why the Shocker monsters are menacing, dangerous animals, which humans find threatening. The hero is a grasshopper because that creature is viewed as a benevolent animal in Japanese culture, one who is a friend to humans and symbol of good luck. There is no other animal whose motif would make more sense for Kamen Rider, given that story's purposes. Kamen Rider is not meant to be threatening or deadly. He is an ally and defender against the true source of evil in the world (which, to Ishinomori, would always be human greed and the military industrial complex).

This sounds nice but as Shougo posted earlier, this was, in the end, something his son chose. Who knows? The chosen design could have been a Skullman and that threatening visage would have been a friendly protagonist who wouldn't hurt a puppy.

I do think Kamen Rider is supposed to be scary. He's meant to be yet another of Shocker's monsters, afterall. The thing is, they obviously have to tone down the design to differentiate the star of the show from the goons he beats up, and make him more appealing to viewers.

All I can say about this for now is that I never want to see anyone design a Rider with the main intent to look cool... not without something weird to it at first. ''That design will take some getting used to.'' You want something cool? Go watch Cross Fire.

Doesn't have to be necessarily scary to me, but at least odd-looking at first sight.

BTW, if Kamen Rider wasn't meant to be scary or monstrous, then the "true" Kamen Rider -- created by its creators, Ishinomori and son -- wouldn't have looked like this:

Was Ishinomori that proud of this in the end? The reception was very negative and I heard even he didn't like it as much.
If there's anything I'd call his true version of Kamen Rider, it might have been BLACK. Or, well... the original manga.

The sad thing, though? Toei's eventually going to do something dumber than fruit. I didn't think Kamen Rider could do something stupider than instrument weapons or CD weapons or Pokemon card battles, but those look like nothing compared to some of the stuff the franchise has put out there in the last few years. (Usually all ideas found in Takebe's bad shows -- vending machine bikes, anyone?)

The way I see this, it's just a 180 of a certain sort.
This has been around since the beginning when you'd get kaijin like Egyptus, and later on there would be a turle with a bazooka, then a Starfish version of Hitler, then basketball and refrigerator monsters, and so on.
It just so happened that those over-the-top designs/motifs/concepts were only found in villains and not in heroes... until now.

 

[lazycoconut]

Now cue the people who will throw stupid accusations of "You want Rider and Sentai to be X-rated blood/sex/gore."

How many Shin fans are actually on here anyway? :sly:

(seriously though, there's a difference between saying that, vs saying that Kamen Rider/Sentai need not try to be "serious")

I'm 20 and I plan to ride a motorbike for the rest of my days. :loltongue:

Loved motorbikes all your life? Awesome!

Never touched one until you're 45 and going bald and suddenly have the urge to buy a Harley and a jacket like John Travolta's in Grease? Then you can worry!

 

[Black Fang]

How many Shin fans are actually on here anyway? :sly:

Count me as one. I think Shougo is too.

Though if you asked me what kind of Rider show I'd like to see, I'd say a J "remake" or direct sequel. That would be fun.

(seriously though, there's a difference between saying that, vs saying that Kamen Rider/Sentai need not try to be "serious")

Toei's interpretation of "not being serious" is not to my liking. Tsuburaya tends to be more even-handed in its approach from what I've seen.

Loved motorbikes all your life? Awesome!

Never touched one until you're 45 and going bald and suddenly have the urge to buy a Harley and a jacket like John Travolta's in Grease? Then you can worry!

I have many people in my family who ride motorcycles. Perhaps my liking for a bike-riding superhero is genetic

 

[FlameDragon]

I-is that his henshin device...?

you hadn't watch the show yet didn't you?

 

[Lynxara]

Compare that to how many are based on a goddamn banana -- I don't think you could even find a parody that would do something that dumb.

To be honest, I think this is a huge problem most superhero fans will have with the Gaim suits. Traditionally, heroes themed after food, and especially fruits, only show up in parody works. Gaim isn't playing the fruit with a completely straight face, but it's also pretty far from a parody. Bandai clearly wants you to think these designs are cool, not comical. So no matter how good Gaim is, it's going to be a hard sell to the audience that would otherwise be most inclined to like it. The show's visual identity doesn't really seem to agree with what's going on in the story.

And the fruit stuff ain't even the end of it -- why hasn't anybody talked about Gaim's flower bike?

It hasn't been in the show yet. Seriously. Urobuchi went out of his way to do two "generic" episodes to introduce Gaim, and didn't bother to put a bike in either of them. That speaks volumes about how far Heisei Rider has drifted from the franchise's roots.

 

[Toku Prime]

How many Shin fans are actually on here anyway? :sly:

(seriously though, there's a difference between saying that, vs saying that Kamen Rider/Sentai need not try to be "serious")

I loved Shin but I wouldn't call it serious. 99% of it is a werewolf B-movie that Ishinomori put into a word processor and did a find-replace to change every instance of the word "wolf" into "grasshopper", and then he tagged on a laugh-out-loud wtf ending onto it.

IIRC, Shin was heavily pushed as a toku for adults and those nostalgic for the original, and sadly it seems it failed to capture their hearts. The next Rider project, ZO, was when Bandai stepped in to start bankrolling the franchise. As much as we badmouth the toy company (and it's difficult to do anything else when looking at poor Takaiwa trapped in that Pineapple Arms suit) it's also thanks to them that we got the likes of Kuuga and Agito at all.

[HIDE]

[/HIDE]

Aww now you're making me nostalgic :sweat:

 

[Twisted_Edge]

Wow, a lot of people are hating on Gaim, and we're only two episodes in. I have to say I'm kind of... Disappointed here.

I've heard many people wince at this idea. It IS a very strong break from the norm It may not be the thing that we wanted. But one thing's for sure. It's the change the franchise needs.

Consider this:

• No more two epside arcs
• Interesting world
• Multiple riders off the bat, likely more coming (with the energy lock seeds and all)
• They have a real set of pros in the director and writer position

We've had hack writing and the same old re-hashed formulas in storytelling for years now. Some did it well, Wizards sucked at it with a vengeance. They're bringing elements back from when the show was fresh. I think that's a good thing.

We're seeing a world that has an ensemble cast. This is up Urubutchi's alley. He also knows how to use plot twists well and there's a huge one coming. It's named Urubutvchi's Trap. That means, put quite simply, there's something coming that we will not see coming easily and it will hit us by surprise. Dude's reeaal good at that one. Madoka Magica and Gargantia had those. And those shows where only twelve episodes. Imagine what the man can do with fifty. We all know Ryuta Tasaki as a Veteran Director and he directed some of my favorite show. So I know I like his style.

The fruit designs I don't mind because they are done well. The suits are well balanced in colours and structure. They pull off their intended themes well. I really couldn't care less that he's wearing an orange. To my opinion, it's all used well and makes sense in the world he lives in. That's what I got from the people seeing him and his team mates. Suspension of disbelief and all that. Nobody going "you're wearing a pineapple" because they just saw him own a big Invess monster.

Once again, as I see it, this may not be the Kamen Rider ALL of us want, but it IS the Kamen Rider the franchise needs right now. Shaking up the status quo, rewriting the rules and ushering in an new dawn for shows to come. Some of us are hating on Decade and Den-O. But both of them brought GOOD changes to the Franchise. Gaim will also be one of those shows, that I firmly believe.