The Toku Unpopular Opinion Thread

[NeonZ]

Akiko or no Akiko, he'll never be cool. He had to learn the hard way that he isn't a Skull or a Terui. I don't remember if it's in this thread or another "unpopular opinions" one, but I said somewhere that I didn't like the way a lot of people compared him to Otoya Kurenai when W first began. Otoya was genuinely smooth, Shotaro's just a wannabe.

I don't disagree about Akiko not being necessary to show that Shotaro is "half-boiled", but I think the problem is that she was the sole person taking that role far too often. Most of the complaints regarding her are exactly focused on that aspect. Many people seem to think that if it weren't for Akiko destroying his moments, Shotaro would be "hard boiled", and I think that impression comes exactly from the overuse of Akiko in that role.

 

[lazycoconut]

I don't disagree about Akiko not being necessary to show that Shotaro is "half-boiled", but I think the problem is that she was the sole person taking that role far too often. Most of the complaints regarding her are exactly focused on that aspect. Many people seem to think that if it weren't for Akiko destroying his moments, Shotaro would be "hard boiled", and I think that impression comes exactly from the overuse of Akiko in that role.

I wonder if there were no Akiko in the show and/or she were replaced with a standard Rider heroine, would Philip fill that role? Would people like him less? I'm reminded of the first OP with the fan blades sequence and Shotaro's fantasy version of Akiko and Philip vs. the way they actually are

 

[Glamador]

I don't disagree about Akiko not being necessary to show that Shotaro is "half-boiled", but I think the problem is that she was the sole person taking that role far too often. Most of the complaints regarding her are exactly focused on that aspect. Many people seem to think that if it weren't for Akiko destroying his moments, Shotaro would be "hard boiled", and I think that impression comes exactly from the overuse of Akiko in that role.

That's a pretty flawless analysis. Indeed, that issue happens with one-note characters far too often. Not to say Akiko IS one-note, as Glamador hasn't seen enough of the series to make that claim, but it's a situation that's happened in a myriad other places.

 

[Lynxara]

Not to say Akiko IS one-note, as Glamador hasn't seen enough of the series to make that claim, but it's a situation that's happened in a myriad other places.

Speaking as someone who has seen all of W: I wouldn't say Akiko is "one-note," but she is treated strictly as a supporting character, and so she doesn't really have a character arc. There are episodes that reveal a bit more about her, but her personality is essentially static. I am tempted to call her "two note," if that would make any sense. She's not totally flat, but she simply isn't written as a protagonist or even as a member of an ensemble cast.

 

[Ziginz Zegell]

One could say she didn't have much character development because she had already figured out exactly who she was before the series began. Shotaro and Philip continued to grow, but can we say they were that much different from the start of the series to near the end? Terui changed a bit, as with most secondaries, and became a bit more laid back. Even then he was still very serious and no non-sense. This isn't to say the character's didn't change or go through trials that helped them to become better, but over all they still ended up staying the same. W seems to be less about changing who you are as it is about perserving the good within yourself. That or taking back that good part of yourself that was lost.

 

[Lynxara]

I would say Terui does get a full character arc, and is written as more of a protagonist than Akiko. Which... well, really, he should be. Akiko is just not a full protagonist, she's a sidekick. Viewed as a sidekick, she's not a bad one, but I think a lot of people want the female lead of a Rider show to be a bit more.

Shotaro I think goes through a full character arc, it's just a bit more subtle than one might expect from this type of show. Shotaro's character arc really hinges on his worthiness to be an heir to the legacy of Shokichi Narumi. The series is about showing how Shotaro is not the same type of person, and really can't be, but can still embody Shokichi's beliefs, ideals, and virtues.

That's not quite what most people expect as the outcome of a character arc. Usually, these things are judged more in terms of how the character's mannerisms and decision-making process changes over time. I would actually say Philip has a more conventional sort of complete character arc in W in that regard, which would make sense. He was the "plot" protagonist, whereas Shotaro was the "tone" protagonist.

 

[Ziginz Zegell]

I would say Terui does get a full character arc, and is written as more of a protagonist than Akiko. Which... well, really, he should be. Akiko is just not a full protagonist, she's a sidekick. Viewed as a sidekick, she's not a bad one, but I think a lot of people want the female lead of a Rider show to be a bit more.

Shotaro I think goes through a full character arc, it's just a bit more subtle than one might expect from this type of show. Shotaro's character arc really hinges on his worthiness to be an heir to the legacy of Shokichi Narumi. The series is about showing how Shotaro is not the same type of person, and really can't be, but can still embody Shokichi's beliefs, ideals, and virtues.

That's not quite what most people expect as the outcome of a character arc. Usually, these things are judged more in terms of how the character's mannerisms and decision-making process changes over time. I would actually say Philip has a more conventional sort of complete character arc in W in that regard, which would make sense. He was the "plot" protagonist, whereas Shotaro was the "tone" protagonist.

I really like that. It fits so well with the concept of the two in one Kamen Rider. I guess after seeing heroes like Takumi and Wateru who went through obvious changes during their arcs, the more subtle changes in W just weren't as noticible. That didn't make them any less significant, just not as pronounced. Now that I think about it, what female leads have we had that went through noticible character changes during her series, or got a full arc to herself? All of Kiva's female leads seemed to have gotten alot of development and attention, and Mari from Faiz got a bit herself. Who else....

 

[Lynxara]

Rider's female leads tend to be static, in my experience. Like... Ozawa is great, and we learn a lot about her through the course of Agito, but I'm not sure she changes. That really seems to set the tone for the other Heisei Rider girls, with few exceptions. The various Fourze girls do get little two-episode character arcs, but generally settle into a status quo after their transitional storyline.

This is why I think one of the more potentially interesting characters in Wizard is Koyomi (which might count as an unpopular opinion). Despite being the female lead, she also seems slotted into the Philip/Ankh/Kengo "plot protagonist" role. She clearly has a secret backstory and hidden nature that are going to pay off in a big way for the storyline at some point.

Philip, Ankh, and Kengo all go through substantial changes of personality as part of their character arcs. So if Wizard plays fair and lets Koyomi play her role to the hilt, then we should see her get to really change at some point, too. I feel like whatever's going on with her will probably tie in with the implications that forces are conspiring to make Wizard more powerful, perhaps at the eventual cost of Haruto's humanity.

I think a lot of people really wanted Rinko to be the female lead, but she seems more like a sidekick to me. A more substantial one than Shunpei, to be sure, but still just a sidekick.

 

[Glamador]

I'm sure disliking Rinko isn't an unpopular opinion at this point. Personally? I find her to be a complete ditz that DEFINITELY slept her way through police training academy (if that's even a thing in Japan, Glamador gets the impression their police are not...highly viewed). Her suggestions are stereotypically girly and her whole way of moving screams "I AM NOT IN A POSITION OF POWER. DOMINATE ME AS I CUTELY BUT FUTILELY RESIST." --That's a topic for the Wizard section though.

As for Ozawa's arc, Glamador believes she definitely had one. Her interactions with Houjo and her former professor bring about a very real change in her. She is more humble, she listens to others' opinions more, she reacts more normally to social situations...it's almost like watching her grow up. She was supposedly fresh out of college in the beginning of the series (having gone in early in life to begin with). So she's basically but a wee babe at the start.

Of course that's nothing compared to Kiva's female leads. But let us think....females with character arcs...Mari as mentioned, certainly NOT Yui...she's hardly even A character much less a good one....glorified furniture, Kabuto at least tries to have Hiyori grow, dunno about Decade yet...

What about Tackle? Glam has only seen 2 episodes of Stronger.

It is rather remarkable how few of them are significantly different from when they started. But Glamador supposes that ties into Masked Rider's history of sexism Lynx mentioned in another thread.

 

[Switchblade]

What about Tackle? Glam has only seen 2 episodes of Stronger.

Tackle comes from an era where character development wasn't a huge priority for shows. Most of the Showa series spent a few episodes establishing the characters' various dimensions but then left them there to focus primarily on the weekly plots. So for most of Stronger Yuriko is pretty much the same character. It's not until her last episode that she really opens up and we get to see a lot more development for her, but by then it's too late to really go anywhere with it.