Super sentai and executive meddling

[Ivanhobe]

I don´t believe that Go-Busters had such a massive retool as many people make it out to be, there were some changes but the show remains largely the same.

I am actually of the people who love Go-Busters, as a matter of fact back when episode 22 aired i was almost convinced that Go-Busters could become my new favorite series. As such, i think that the mid series climax was just that, a mid series climax, just like they did in Magiranger, it didn´t feel like some desperate attemp to save the show as many people seem to believe.

That said, after episode 30 the show did have some changes, but they were mostly in the writing, the show´s plots aren´t as solid and compelling as they used to be, the whole thing seems far more formulaic while the first half was anything but. Aside from those changes in story, the show has remained largely the same.

Also, i didn´t knew about changes of production in Goseiger, though i did notice that once the Matorintis saga started the show did improve, it wasn´t a huge overhaul but i did find myself enjoying it more, heck, Metal Alice remains as my favorite character from that season.

 

[Sinistar]

I don't know if it was due to meddling or not, but the first dozen or so episodes of Sun Vulcan always felt a little more serious than the rest of the series, which seemed more lighthearted like Denjiman. Those early Sun Vulcans were actually pretty creepy with the mecha-humans.

GoBusters always seemed schizophrenic to me, with it's awkwardly forced-in humor to breakup the monotony. I don't mind comic relief in a serious-toned show, especially since it's kind of a given in sentai, but the way GoBusters carried it out seemed lazy. But then again I can't really comment too much, because I couldn't make it past the first 14 episodes...

 

[Demi-Fiend]

I'm only on episode 11 of Gobuster.

I have every thing downloaded already, I just can't watch more then one episode at a time.

 

[Goty]

-Ohranger : very serious and dramatic tone at the beginning: apparently, because of the Sarin attack and the Kobe earthquake, Ohranger began to get a more light hearted tone; but eventually, Ohranger managed to have a good balance between humor and seriousness (besides, because of the big success of Ohranger toys, the show was less victim of executive meddling later)

Yeah, i think it's exaggerated how Ohranger is so often seen as the pinnacle of a Sentai "where everything went wrong" or "derailed badly due to external reasons". Perhaps because not many people actually watched the whole thing, at least on the western side of the fanbase (i think Japanese fans like the series and its cast).
I mean, they didn't avoid seriousness at all, especially in the end, when the invasion is actually successful for a while. And personally i had great fun watching it. Unlike most of the others you've mentioned, it didn't strike me as a series that completely lost it or had no idea where it was going.

I don't know if it was due to executive meddling or not, but Goseiger certainly features one of the most out of place direction changes for a character of recent years. Alata spends most of the series as a pretty quiet, very easy going sort of a guy. He's not at all serious and has a "do what you feel like, and it will all work somehow" attitude...until the final arc where he suddenly starts making these "rousing the troops" speeches about the team's mission in the middle of combat. It feels really out of character for him and I can't see why they would have done it unless they were told to make him more of a "typical" red. Goseiger is the only series I've seen so far (out of ten, so there may be more) that specifically devoted an episode to confirming that there isn't a group leader, and it seems like a complete 180 degree turn to start trying to build Alata into one at the end.

Well, the "who's the leader" episode actually reinforces the idea that Alata was their unspoken leader, that was the whole point. What i didn't like about that episode was how it made the other four Goseigers look bad in comparison, like Hyde showing a total lack of initiative, when he had previously shown he could be a perfectly fine fit for their leader.

But i really didn't see his character change...ever since the Dereputa rivalry they made it clear that Alata was the "sweet and quiet, but fierce and serious when he's fighting" guy. And the speeches you've mentioned were always used ad nauseam. They would be defeated, get up with a speech and beat the bad guy. I don't think they started it halfway, their "protect Earth is an angel's duty" motto was always there.

 

[KingWilly]

Go-Busters definitely has two halves that are very different in feel and tone; enough to be a little disappointing when you go to re-watch the first episode and learn that very little of it remains relevant to the current plot line the show has. It's even an entirely different tone.

I suppose Gokaiger could maybe count? It didn't end up anything like what had originally been intended, but it was more of a case of executive-going-with-the-flow when they suddenly had former sentai actors declaring themselves available in mass quantities.

What was originally intended? Although cameos became more common in the latter half of the show, wasn't that because of Toei incompetence rather than a deliberate sway from the original premise?

 

[Goty]

What was originally intended? Although cameos became more common in the latter half of the show, wasn't that because of Toei incompetence rather than a deliberate sway from the original premise?

Toei incompetence? ..what?
The premise didn't change. After the Tsunami so many alumni were willing to come back that the staff warmed up to the idea and made room for them. So we got more tributes than initially planned. The biggest change is that they didn't intend at first to have at least one cameo from every Sentai.
Anyway, that had nothing to do with executive meddling. It's hard to picture a series starting its run with the entire year already planned and everything set in stone. The staff adjusting themselves to eventualities (for the better or worse, like Hana's situation in Den-o) probably happens a lot more than we can imagine.

 

[Toku Prime]

What was originally intended? Although cameos became more common in the latter half of the show, wasn't that because of Toei incompetence rather than a deliberate sway from the original premise?

If you check out this post from Red Ranger here (which I'm going to guess is pretty legit as Lynxara devoted an episode of her podcast to it and she's pretty good at filtering out the BS) they basically only originally intended to do nine tribute episodes. As detailed in the post, they basically ended up getting loads of former Sentai actors getting in touch to say "if you want me, count me in" and the producers rolled with it, starting the mad rush to have cameos from a member of every sentai and a tribute episode for as many as possible, As a result it's highly likely that a lot of what they'd wanted to do with the show was cut back or left out in order to make room. Like I said, executive-rolling-with-it rather than meddling as such, but chances are had it not been for a certain former Black Knight, Gokaiger would have been a pretty different show (and we maybe wouldn't have had the Gavan revival at all).

 

[monkeyjb1988]

Toei incompetence? ..what?
The premise didn't change. After the Tsunami so many alumni were willing to come back that the staff warmed up to the idea and made room for them. So we got more tributes than initially planned. The biggest change is that they didn't intend at first to have at least one cameo from every Sentai.
Anyway, that had nothing to do with executive meddling. It's hard to picture a series starting its run with the entire year already planned and everything set in stone. The staff adjusting themselves to eventualities (for the better or worse, like Hana's situation in Den-o) probably happens a lot more than we can imagine.

If you check out this post from Red Ranger here (which I'm going to guess is pretty legit as Lynxara devoted an episode of her podcast to it and she's pretty good at filtering out the BS) they basically only originally intended to do nine tribute episodes. As detailed in the post, they basically ended up getting loads of former Sentai actors getting in touch to say "if you want me, count me in" and the producers rolled with it, starting the mad rush to have cameos from a member of every sentai and a tribute episode for as many as possible, As a result it's highly likely that a lot of what they'd wanted to do with the show was cut back or left out in order to make room. Like I said, executive-rolling-with-it rather than meddling as such, but chances are had it not been for a certain former Black Knight, Gokaiger would have been a pretty different show (and we maybe wouldn't have had the Gavan revival at all).

First off, thank you for eventualities. While it would've been cool to know what Gokaiger could've been, it's nice all the teams got a representative. It' would've been weird and disrespectful to only have a few returnees and it's very nice it was the actors going to the producers for a role other than the other way around. Also has the side benefit of giving Basco a smaller victory with only five powers at most (save for his last episode). Good example of executive meddling if it was them that made the final decision to get every team represented.

As for Go-Busters; I detected a little change, but it could've just been a story change. It feels more like the writers getting bored than executives wanting new elements. Of course, Rai-oh could've been executive meddling, but that's been normal in Sentai forever so meh. I have no access behind the scenes for Go-Busters so no idea what happened.

As for the others: no comments. I saw little of them, even Goseiger. (part of the reason I fought the urge to give up on Go-Busters; I regretted missing Goseiger).

 

[lazycoconut]

I agree that Go-Busters is definitely a show that feels like it's been tampered with a lot. I can feel a push after the first few episodes to make it more like a conventional Sentai, and then there's stuff like the first arc building up a plot about Enter's Megazord design only for it to be instantly, unceremoniously defeated by Beet and Stag Buster. I'm going to ask though, how many people strongly think that the mid-season "hyperspace" episodes were supposed to have been the finale of the show? I can never make up my mind about i.

 

[Lynxara]

You know... for all the "re-jiggering" Go-Busters was suppose to have done......... it doesn't really seem any different to me than what we got from the beginning.

See if you still feel this way after you watch the movie, Keith. The movie is filmed and written in the style of early episodes, and I've seen some people going "Oh, wow, this show has changed a lot" after viewing it. I think if you haven't re-watched any of the show, and just take things one episode as a time, the changes of tone, shooting style, and characterization may not be all that noticeable. (They feel very noticeable to me, but I may be oversensitive to this sort of thing.)

A bit off-topic, but... This isn't the first time I've seen Go-Busters labeled as spy-themed, and I don't get where that's coming from.

It's from the first quarter toy solicitations, which pushed the idea of "spy gadgets" hard, especially in the roleplay toy lines. Likewise, the first episode is an extended homage to the Mission Impossible films, and a similar emphasis on intrigue and investigation runs through the show's first quarter. In particular, the emphasis on Enetron as a McGuffin owed a lot to conventional spy thriller plotting.

This gets downplayed immediately in the second quarter releases, which emphasized Beet and Stag Busters' more "traditional" Sentai arsenal. Once Beet and Stag join the show, you start seeing traditional stock plots used for episode fodder, when they were conspicuously absent in the prior quarter. Enetron becomes much less central to episode plotting, though there's still some attempt to emphasize process and coordination.

Subsequent quarters also stick to emphasizing traditional Sentai merch, which completely removing Enetron in favor of the more kid-friendly Messiah Card McGuffin. The only real sop we get to the initial spy theme in the later lines is the Lio Blaster's Lio Attache mode, which to me comes off more as an attempt to repeat the success of the OOO Driver than anything else. In the show, it actively destroys attempts at "spy thriller" plotting, since the Attache can automatically detect things that are relevant to the plot!

I suppose Gokaiger could maybe count? It didn't end up anything like what had originally been intended, but it was more of a case of executive-going-with-the-flow when they suddenly had former sentai actors declaring themselves available in mass quantities.

I think Gokaiger is a rare case of the production team setting out to make one show, then changing their minds and deciding to make a different one. I don't think Toei's upper execs had anything to do with the decision. Ranger Keys were selling like crazy, and when toy sales are high then Toei's usually pretty good about letting creators do as they please (within reason).

I don't know if it was due to meddling or not, but the first dozen or so episodes of Sun Vulcan always felt a little more serious than the rest of the series, which seemed more lighthearted like Denjiman.

Sun Vulcan's a case of meddling, namely in that Toei was working hard to figure out how to make sure the show was as big a hit as Denjiman. You can really see the show trying out different sorts of things throughout its first 20 episodes or so, and the tone of the writing evolving from episode to episode. I don't think Sun Vulcan's identity really solidifies until the second Vul Eagle joins the team. Then the show seems to settle comfortably into an over-the-top cartoony action niche, which seems to be how the series is remembered. It seems a lot of Sentai shows are remembered more for their last half or how they ended than anything else, so there's a lot of shows that begin in ways that feel rather jarring in comparison to the show's reputation.

I mean, they didn't avoid seriousness at all, especially in the end, when the invasion is actually successful for a while. And personally i had great fun watching it.

I feel like Ohranger was a show that mainly changed when it came to the tone and content of the filler episodes. Ohranger's very early filler episodes are quite grim, and very reminiscent of 80s shows. Later filler episodes are more reminiscent of the stuff Sugimura just tended to do with Sentai anyway.

I feel like the Kingranger arc and the show's ending are probably pretty close to the original story bible, and it's really stuff like fighting Bara Hungry or that episode where Ohranger fights a vacuum cleaner that are the result of what could reasonably be called executive meddling.

(Are those the same episode, actually? Man, it's been awhile since Ohranger...)

But i really didn't see his character change...ever since the Dereputa rivalry they made it clear that Alata was the "sweet and quiet, but fierce and serious when he's fighting" guy. And the speeches you've mentioned were always used ad nauseam. They would be defeated, get up with a speech and beat the bad guy. I don't think they started it halfway, their "protect Earth is an angel's duty" motto was always there.

Yeah, one thing that's interesting about Wakamatsu's run on Goseiger is that there's very little he changes abruptly. He more seems to go back to the earlier material and try to make sure the characters are actually written in a way consistent with the story bible. Goseiger suffers from some really bad and obviously rushed scripting early on, and in some episodes there's a real sense that the writer, usually not Yokote, has no friggin' idea what to make of these characters. Even Arakawa's early episodes of Goseiger seem really uncomfortable both with the show's premise and how the characters behave. That tension clearly informs a lot of Gosei Knight's dialogue and behavior in Arakawa-scripted episodes, and makes Yokote's take on Gosei Knight come off quite strangely in comparison.

It's hard to picture a series starting its run with the entire year already planned and everything set in stone. The staff adjusting themselves to eventualities (for the better or worse, like Hana's situation in Den-o) probably happens a lot more than we can imagine.

Yeah, I doubt even a heavily-planned show like W never changes anything in the story bible. I'm sure scenes get subtracted and added to scripts right up to the last minute, and accommodations made for what audiences are liking and what they don't seem to be into. Hell, W even has some very clear dangling plot threads and dropped storylines, despite otherwise being some of Toei's tightest modern writing.

I'm going to ask though, how many people strongly think that the mid-season "hyperspace" episodes were supposed to have been the finale of the show? I can never make up my mind about i.

My gut feeling is that the events of 28-30 were probably, originally, intended to be stretched out over a number of episodes to be the series finale. Even episode 30 seems to be a two-parter crammed into one episode, at least from my perspective. I'm sure not everything would've happened exactly the same way, but in broad strokes, I figure it would've been similar.