Shinkenger/W - What did they do right?

[Clocktower]

For Shinkenger for me, it was definitely the story. It constantly had big events happening and set up story threads that kept you interested all the way through, where as with something like Go-busters, you know they have a primary mission, but very few of the episodes revolve around that and it never seems like anything of consequence is happening, even when they're trying to pretend like there is.

W/Shinkenger nailed the storytelling perfectly and both had very fun and original themes.

 

[Starscreamer]

I can't say much for Shinken...but for W...I think one of the better aspects of W is the fact he WASN'T over powered. His power level was the same as most his foes. The fact the writting team was the same from begining to end didn't hurt either. Shotaro was a realistic character who all could identify with I think...plus the supporting cast was a pefect balance against the double rider. The villians were also fleshed out...not just some orginization out to conquor, but it WAS a family. I had a reason to watch W not only to see what would happen with the story, but with ALL the characters.

 

[NeonZ]

I also feel like cross-overs are being shoved down our throats. I love W, but it is also guilty of this. I don't mind cross overs, but they are done poorly. There's no reason for two unrelated plots to come together at the end. The end of W and Decade movie made no sense.

Although I agree with that regarding Movie Wars 2010, I don't think you can say that regarding the later ones. They all have elements tying the two stories together besides some thematic similarities and a random final battle, unlike Movie Wars 2010.

Besides, even if you dislike it, the movies have actually done better since the crossovers started, rather than performing worse like the post-W tv shows. The merchandising also seems to work better nowadays when they release various collectibles and some specific items based on past series too, rather than just forgetting them after they've ended. The crossover "craze", which so far is mostly limited to movies and merchandising, so far seems to only have helped the franchise.

If anything, I think that bringing that "craze" to the tv shows might help them overall, since it seems to work decently as far as retaining audience goes.

There's also the problem with the cameos. OOO had no reason to show up in the W movie. He was unrelated to the plot and it was random.

Eternal made a huge announcement on tv. Anyone could have watched that and attempted to stop him at that point. Out of the movie cameos done so far, that was by far the least random one. It could have used an earlier scene with Eiji watching the announcement to drive the point home though, but still makes enough sense by itself.

The same thing goes for the seven legendary riders and kikainder (especially kikaider. That was super random) in the other movies. Whatever happened to separate universes.

The seven legendary Riders were tied to the point about urban legends mentioned in Fourze's first few episodes and even Megamax itself. "Kamen Rider" as an heroic name also was relevant several times during Meteor's plotline. They were there to expand on that and also explain why they aren't active in Fourze itself.

The Ishinomori cameos in Let's Go Kamen Riders were random though, but so were several other things towards the ending of that movie...

And I liked the Den-O, Kiva crossover. It was nothing like the recent ones if I remember correctly because it was an actual crossover. The recent ones could easily be two stand alone movies with no reason to come together at the end.

Are you serious? Kiva had about three scenes in that movie. It was a Den-O movie with Kiva slapped onto some scenes - and that's extremely obvious if you followed the news regarding its announcement because it was initially announced as a solo Den-O movie straight to DVD, before becoming a Kiva crossover on theaters.

 

[bustershadow]

Looks like I didn't remember the Den-O Kiva movie correctly. lol.
I could see why crossovers are popular.
I guess I'm more upset about the execution rather than the existence.


I agree with some of the posts above about the villains in W and Shinkenger and they're internal struggle. It was also the one thing I liked about OOO (the only reason I kept watching).

 

[KingRanger]

Poor choice of words on my part. I think the style of W made it work. The series after W just got really repetitive. I shouldn't really include Wizard because it's only up to episode 14.

And I liked the Den-O, Kiva crossover. It was nothing like the recent ones if I remember correctly because it was an actual crossover. The recent ones could easily be two stand alone movies with no reason to come together at the end.






The guest are only important because they are gates and that's all. They're just plot devices. Some were important, like Mikiko, the nurse and her son.
All three series use the same the style about a person being targeted by, involved with, or being a monster. The main characters learn about this person and fight the monster who survives the first episode. The second episode, the person's problem is resolved and the monster is defeated. Some episodes are done well because the main characters are developed like Shunpei in the last Wizard episodes. It's not about the 2 part episodes, but they way they're done. It's one thing for each episode to be way to similar (which I think is the problem with Gobuster btw), but the series have the same problem.

Each episode in Shinkeger and W actually had a different feel.

I hope that clears things up.

I hate to burst your bubble but Double had the same formula. Something bad happens in part 1, part 2 bad thing is fixed. Shinkenger had the standard sentai formula. Monster attacks, rangers fight monster, monster wins and leaves or gets beat down a little and leaves, and in the end the rangers solve the problem of the week and finish off monster.

 

[Ivanhobe]

There´s is a number of reasons why W was so popular, i am not exactly a fan of the show, personally i prefer OOO, but even though it didn´t clicked with as it did with others i can see why so many people like it. From an objective perspective the show had a perfect balance between characters, comedy, plot, action and villains. I guess you could say that the show was perfectly executed.

That said, i think that one of the main reasons why W was such a success was because of how straightforward it is.

Looking back a the previous seasons, Decade was an anniversary show, Kiva had the two time periods gimmick, Den-O had the time traveling trains and the whole "possesion" thing, and all the previous seasons had this Dorama quality to them, well, except for Hibiki but that is another beast entirely.

Looking at that precedent is easy to see how W´s Style was such a lump of fresh air, the show had simple premise (an unussual detective agency that deals with humans transformed into monsters) and a cool gimmick (the Gaia Memories). Sure, there was a lot more to the show than that but the simple premise and format of the show made it quite accessible, almost anyone can jump in and watch this "Kamen Rider" thing and enjoy it right away.

This is a quality that was somewhat lost in the following seasons, i love OOO but i have to admit that the show is not easy to get into, or at least not as easy as W was. While the Dopants were just humans that transformed for some selfish reason, the Yummies were manifestations of desire, not to mention that the greeeds are a complex bunch. Basically the approach of OOO is more complicated that the one of W, and while Fourze is quite an entertaining show, you have to admit that the premise and its execution are a tad bizarre.

Now, when it comes to Super Sentai, i guess we can all agree that entire point of the franchise is having a group of people and seeing what they can achieve together. This, i think, is the determining factor of Shinkenger´s success.

From the moment it started, Shinkenger had this likeable cast of characters, they were all unique in their own way and none of them felt half-assed. The show made these characters the main focus and this enhanced all the other elements of the show, the plot was interesting, the side stories were interesting, heck, even the villains were more interesting, and this is particularly important because since these villains were such a genuine threat you cared even more about your main characters.

Basically the show had many good qualities and the characters just rounded it up and made it all special. For comparison take Goseiger, the main concepts and the plot of the show weren´t bad, but the main cast was so lame that everything became lackluster.

 

[lazycoconut]

Basically the show had many good qualities and the characters just rounded it up and made it all special. For comparison take Goseiger, the main concepts and the plot of the show weren´t bad, but the main cast was so lame that everything became lackluster.

I like Shinkenger a lot, but people do seem to compare its characters to everything, and I think that's unfair. During Goseiger, people openly hated the cast because they weren't like the Shinkengers. During Gokaiger, people complained that the characters were poor imitations of Shinkenger's and/or were too flat in comparison. Now, people complain that the Go-Busters aren't written like the Shinkengers. It's like the way that with every new Sentai people get angry when the villains aren't like Gekiranger's. Surely there has to be more than one way to write characters?

 

[Ivanhobe]

I like Shinkenger a lot, but people do seem to compare its characters to everything, and I think that's unfair.

I only made the comparison with Goseiger because it was the show right after Shinkenger, i don´t compare its characters to everything, as a matter of fact i watched Goseiger one year after i finished Goseiger and i even watched a couple of other sentai in between, so Shinkenger characters weren´t fresh on my mind when i watched Goseiger.

But you are right, the comparison IS unfair, the problem is that it is very difficult not to arrive at such comparison given how well Shinkenger used its cast, the show had this likeable cast from the get go while other shows struggled with this, even if the characters in said shows became as good or even better that the shinkengers.

For example, i love Gekiranger, it is my favorite season, but i have to admit that it took me a while to warm up to its characters, particularly Ran and Retsu. Gokaiger had a good likeable cast, but the characters weren´t really all that developed. In Goseiger´s case the characters were just lame and uninteresting, between the 5 protagonists they have like two and a half personalities at most, heck, i think characters like GoseiKnight and Metal Alice were better stablished and developed. And they were Robots.

I think the only series that i have watched and that handled its characters as well as Shinkenger was Dekaranger, though in that show they took a sillier approach with the characters while Shinkenger was more dramatic. In a way that does make the Shinkengers stand out more.

 

[lazycoconut]

I only made the comparison with Gosiger because it was the show right after Shinkenger, i don´t compare it´s characters to everything, as a matter of fact i watched Goseiger one year after i finished Goseiger and i even watched a couple of other sentai in between, so Shinkenger characters weren´t fresh on my mind when i watched Goseiger.

But you are right, the comparison IS unfair, the problem is that it is very difficult not to arrive at such comparison given how well Shinkenger used its cast, the show had this likeable cast from the get go while other shows struggled with this, even if the characters in said shows became as good or even better that the shinengers.

For example, i love Gekiranger, it is my favorite season, but i have to admit that it took me a while to warm up to its characters, particularly Ran and Retsu. Gokaiger had a good likeable cast, but the characters weren´t really all that developed. In Goseiger´s case the characters were just lame and uninteresting, between the 5 protagonists they have like two and a half personalities at most, heck, i think characters like GoseiKnight and Metal Alice were better stablished and developed. And they were Robots.

I think the only series that i have watched and that handled its characters as well as Shinkenger was Dekaranger, though in that show they took a sillier approach with the characters while Shinkenger was more dramatic. In a way that does make the Shinkengers stand out more.

I wasn't having a go at you, sorry!

Yeah, I think a lot of viewers tend to default to preferring heroes with a more "serious" characterization - similar to why almost everyone likes BoukenRed because he was a break in the long line of loud, hyper Reds of the decade. Sentai from Hurricaneger through Go-onger used a lot of exaggerated, anime-esque character types and Shinkenger was definitely different from that

 

[Glamador]

Surely there has to be more than one way to write characters?

And yet...when you have to have a team of 5 that's pretty much GOT to work together if you want to have a giant robot fight that episode...the options become a bit more limited. You can write 5 characters 100 ways sure, but 5 characters that are also warriors that are also a team and that also do not squabble like schoolchildren and that ALSO connect with the audience on some level?

Suddenly "one way" is looking less and less implausible.