Go-Busters and Timeranger; two experiments gone wrong?

[bleachjoj]

Don't discourage people from posting what they wanna post.

I hate that Gobusters gets so much flack, cuz it really is one of my favorite and most enjoyed Super Sentai. Gokaiger was a seriously tough act to follow, I think.

It's just that it's boring and dry. I'm in the middle of watching Jetman and it's everything I'm missing from Gobusters. Wonderful characters, good villains, and the story keeps me coming back.

 

[lazycoconut]

I think it's worth remembering that the Sentai and Rider franchises have been in decline since Shinkenger/W ended, and IIRC, so has the rest of the Sunday morning lineup that it airs in.

Trying to be different from previous Sentai paid off for Jetman, but didn't for Timeranger and Go-Busters

 

[Eldar]

TimeRanger wasn't a failed experiment so much as it just didn't move the merch. Which is why we got the Bandaitastic power-animal parade in GaoRanger the next year.

With GoBusters there really just seems to be some lack of commitment after the early going and it just keeps wavering back and forth between neutral and desperate. I don't think there's anything wrong with GoBusters in terms of design and concept, not even the characters really (though I can of a couple things I'd change). It's something that's failing because for whatever reason the people behind it don't seem to believe in it that much.

I think with GoBusters it's not a failure of experiment as much as it is a failure to execute. I would be really curious to know what the hell happened with the production of this show. Maybe it just boils down to Takebe and Sentai are not a good mix. Or maybe Kobayashi has burned out completely.

Most experiments have a set of guidelines and at least something the principal investigators are trying to prove or disprove.

What exactly were they trying to do with Gobusters? I don't think Takebe or Kobayashi presently even know.

 

[BoukenSilver83]

the problem with timeranger and gobusters is that they both have too many fillers, there's nothing new about them its same boring stuff, what they did right with gaoranger and not with timeranger was they made a toy gimmicked series and not filler boring series, that drove alot of excitment and boosted the ratings.

it's the same with gobusters it's not toy driven like most sentai series, accept they were trying to squeeze all the gobuster machine gimmicks, animal/vehicle modes, which im impressed they did that because it makes the gimmicks on toys worth buying.

accept it hurt the ratings a little.

 

[Goty]

I don't think this comparison is fair. From 1990-2000, Timeranger was the 2nd highest rated Sentai, losing only to Gingaman and tied with Zyuranger and Jetman.
About toy sales, are those low numbers even official? I don't know if it was ever confirmed.

What exactly were they trying to do with Gobusters? I don't think Takebe or Kobayashi presently even know.

Yeah, that's the thing. Timeranger didn't try to change Sentai, it was an attempt to emulate the mood of the early days, and it succeeded with fans, but the toy fest of Gaoranger being a huge hit changed everything.
But with Go-Busters, i'm not really sure about their goal. What i know is, it certainly gets more criticism/indifference than Timeranger ever did.

 

[Lynxara]

I don't know about Go-Busters's toys sales, but its ratings are very low.

Go-Busters's toy sales figures are a very weird thing. Bandai is projecting 11 billion yen, which is a very strong number (on par with shows like Shinkenger). There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that Go-Buster Ace is a very popular toy.

That said, there's two big question marks floating over Bandai's projections. One, Bandai extended the Ranger Key line into the 2012, so all Ranger Key sales count toward Super Sentai's merchandise total. Two, it is not known if sales of Akibaranger goods are counting toward the Super Sentai title. So basically we don't know how much of that 11 billion yen in projected sales stems from Go-Busters, what stems from other things.

Moreover, Timeranger and Go-Busters have at least two elements in common: Yasuko Kobayashi and a serious tone.

Thinking it over, they might have a third. The last arc of Timeranger is dominated by the TimeFire character. As I've gotten older, I've begun to wonder if TimeFire was a character who meant to be a part of the show, or something tacked-on to goose toy sales. The anecdotes about the Timeranger line talk about how kids really liked the roleplay toys, but disliked the robot toys. TimeFire's robot being a T-Rex makes a lot of sense as an attempt by Bandai to get a robot into the show who appeals to kids a bit more, and failing that, just add in another popular character with a fresh line of roleplay toys.

TimeFire is a good character, and his storyline is quite memorable. If he wasn't planned as part of the show, he still basically makes sense as something to introduce into it. I feel like the current arc of Go-Busters may be a similar sort of thing, something unplanned and designed to goose ratings, but still basically logical and possibly quite interesting. I can't say whether or not it's memorable or not yet, because I think a lot of my final opinion about Go-Busters is going to hinge on how the current storyarcs end. TimeFire's story certainly came to a memorable end, so there may yet be something really interesting that can come out of Enter's back-up plan.

What exactly were they trying to do with Gobusters?

Something about Kobayashi that's rarely discussed is how she is, pretty clearly, fond of Ultraman. Many of her series echo elements of particular Ultraman series that predate them. In the case of Go-Busters, I'm beginning to think she was inspired by Ultraman Nexus. The story of Ultraman Nexus is, basically, using the progression of the year-long plot to chart the development of an ordinary but well-meaning young man into a true hero.

If you watch Go-Busters, a plot thread that surfaces occasionally is the idea that Hiromu isn't quite a hero yet. It would make a lot of sense if, as originally planned, Hiromu's big speech about shutting down Messiah in episode 30 was going to be the capstone of his character arc. It would be the moment where he went from angry but well-meaning kid to a proper, memorable Red.

The idea of spending the entire series charting a character's development from ordinary person to hero is something Sentai has used for secondary characters before, but never for the main character (and Red is, 95% of the time, any given Sentai show's main character). It's a compelling idea, and I wonder if Go-Busters stumbled by simply over-estimating the audience's attention span.

About toy sales, are those low numbers even official? I don't know if it was ever confirmed.

The source of the Timeranger toy sales is Bandai's annual financial report, the same as the Go-Busters numbers. They're official and confirmed, more or less.

Yeah, that's the thing. Timeranger didn't try to change Sentai, it was an attempt to emulate the mood of the early days,

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Timeranger doesn't feel very much at all like early shows like BFJ or Goranger, or even 80s shows with sci-fi underpinnings like Flashman or Changeman. Timeranger is a lot more character-driven, and the approach to action is more cinematic and less visceral. I feel Timeranger was part of a big experiment to change Sentai that also included Go Go V, and was ultimately just not successful. It's Gaoranger that ends up dictating the tone and style of the 2000s, for good or ill.

 

[Goty]

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Timeranger doesn't feel very much at all like early shows like BFJ or Goranger, or even 80s shows with sci-fi underpinnings like Flashman or Changeman. Timeranger is a lot more character-driven, and the approach to action is more cinematic and less visceral. I feel Timeranger was part of a big experiment to change Sentai that also included Go Go V, and was ultimately just not successful. It's Gaoranger that ends up dictating the tone and style of the 2000s, for good or ill.

Maybe i didn't phrase it right...i meant that Jun Hikasa was trying to make Timeranger "globally" appealing for kids and older viewers alike, more akin to how it used to be in the old afternoon timeslot. It's much easier to speculate about the staff's intent than with Go-Busters, which is all over the place.

 

[Liquid Chris Sentai]

SNIP

One of the worst impacts that Shonen animated cartoons fillers left is that people seem to apply the term filler to everything else. Super Sentai was made to have these episodes. It helps drive character development, and it helps drive plot development. You seem to think that just because there are tons of episodes that don't introduce a new mecha or a new weapon, it is automatically filler.

Timeranger isn't cluttered with filler like you think it is. It's because of the episode with Mad Blast that we learn of Yuuri's motivations. It is because of episodes with Yugento and Mayden that we see the innocent side to Naoto. Plus the episode with Yugento gives us plot development with the Asami Group and trying to learn of Timeranger's technology. It's because of the episode with Keys that Tatsuya and Ayase starting becoming close. This leads to some more plot development in the episode with Org where we learn of Ayase's disease, and makes Tatsuya promise to not tell anyone. This leads to some damn good character development once we get Emboss and Dorba as monsters of the week. It's because of the episode with Doc that we learn how Domon didn't just get expelled from being a professional fighter, but how homesick he is. This leads to another damn good character development with the episode that has Blaster Mad in it. I could go on and on how each of these episodes are significant.

 

[live jetabare]

Timeranger isn't cluttered with filler like you think it is. It's because of the episode with Mad Blast that we learn of Yuuri's motivations. It is because of episodes with Yugento and Mayden that we see the innocent side to Naoto. Plus the episode with Yugento gives us plot development with the Asami Group and trying to learn of Timeranger's technology. It's because of the episode with Keys that Tatsuya and Ayase starting becoming close. This leads to some more plot development in the episode with Org where we learn of Ayase's disease, and makes Tatsuya promise to not tell anyone. This leads to some damn good character development once we get Emboss and Dorba as monsters of the week. It's because of the episode with Doc that we learn how Domon didn't just get expelled from being a professional fighter, but how homesick he is. This leads to another damn good character development with the episode that has Blaster Mad in it. I could go on and on how each of these episodes are significant.

This; A HUNDRED TIMES THIS

The last arc of Timeranger is dominated by the TimeFire character. As I've gotten older, I've begun to wonder if TimeFire was a character who meant to be a part of the show, or something tacked-on to goose toy sales. The anecdotes about the Timeranger line talk about how kids really liked the roleplay toys, but disliked the robot toys. TimeFire's robot being a T-Rex makes a lot of sense as an attempt by Bandai to get a robot into the show who appeals to kids a bit more, and failing that, just add in another popular character with a fresh line of roleplay toys.
TimeFire is a good character, and his storyline is quite memorable. If he wasn't planned as part of the show, he still basically makes sense as something to introduce into it.

It's interesting that you're mentioning Timefire, because when one looks at Timeranger's ratings, there is a significant increase in ratings once Timefire appears; before he appears, Timeranger's ratings were relatively low, only reaching the 7% mark occasionnally; once he's here, the ratings often were above the 8% mark, and even sometimes, 9%. If Timeranger has had pretty good ratings at the end, it owes it a lot to Timefire.

 

[Liquid Chris Sentai]

Is it me, or does Naoto feel like Tatusya's bad-ass older brother he never had?