Riders and Henshins: New bodies or armor?

[Heero_G]

Isn't Skull rooted in alternate reality? Decade didn't make Double an alternate version of himself. There only is one Double and the Skull also is from his dimension.

That Skull in the final of Movie Wars is from another dimension, different from the Double reality, they say this in the movie if i remember correctly, and he even states that he don't know who Shotaro is.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

Oh, then I stand corrected. Thanks. See, LaZerwolfX, it's not that difficult.

Why would they make another one? :sly:

 

[Ziginz Zegell]

Man these posts are getting fun. Lots to say, lots to say.

Lazer: Yeah I am just as down with Accel growing wheels and a gas cap as I am W growing a metal shaft (HA!) and Trigger Magnum. Then why does shroud have one you may ask, or Terui have the engine blade? Answer: prototypes. Shroud made the original memories, the lost driver, and W driver. That is why Museum couldn't make more said drivers and had to rely on their less filtered versions and incomplete memories. Shroud never showed them how or developed them long after she got Terrored in the face. The Trigger Magnum, Engine Blade, and Philips driver were all carbon copies made through copying data already in the drivers, memories, and Philips connection to the true gaia Memory. The second Philip saw the W driver, he was able to look up a ton of info on it instantly and his memory created body just produced a carbon copy. Basically the same thing Nadeshiko did with her driver; Philip just did it better for obvious reasons. What about the T2 memories then and the eternal lost driver? Answer: Foundation X just did it better, had far more resources, and had already learned alot from watching W and Skull.

Not trying to tear apart your argument...but ya know how it is...
Besides I am obviously biased at this point and don't have any evidence to support my claims other then what has already been presented. While I can't say it isn't a suit, I really doubt it.


Now on to the next round!

Kiva is pretty easy in my mind, though alot of this is personal assumption. It is an organic transformation created by Kivat's who rewrite the individuals genetic structure into a more refined, but unnatural state. Fangire are better at this since they have natural transformation abilities "built in" to their genetics. Humans, on the other hand, arn't designed well for it so the transformations are often very bad for their health. There is also a matter of the kivat's dark power and strength. A weaker Kivat, like Kivala, can be used by a human safely without harming them since it is a mild transformation. A more powerful kivat like Kivat Bat the 2nd causes massive transformation and infusion of dark power that can easily kill a weaker user. The fact Kurenai could use it as well as he could be a sign of just how powerful a human he was. Kivat Bat the Third wasn't as powerful as his father, thus his version of kiva wasn't as refined, but still allowed for flexability by having other demon races add power to it. This is also why Wateru could only hold his GaDoBaKi form for a very short time; being half human forced limitations. Tatsulot changed this by becoming a second manager for the access power while provideing his own power to release any limitations Wateru's half human phisiology might place on him.

You might ask then about the chains and metal on the suit. Simple: MAGIC! What normal sciency stuff can't explain the magic factor of Kiva can. This also explains the arms monster's and their organic/almost machine like weapon forms.

OOO is harder to explain, but I am going to say it lies between an armor and transformation. We have seen what medals can do to a human without a means to harnest that power and control it. OOO would be like W then and be a filtered version of that power that is armor, but armor that rewrites the phisilogy of the wearer to allow for normaly improbable abilities.

It all goes back to Kuuga who was a total transformation and had the ability to rearrange the molecular structure of items he weilded as weapons. In this case the same ability might explain many rider forms as less armor, organic change, or magic as simply being a transformation on a molecular level. This could literally explain almost every rider ability ever, transformation and all as being the underlieing ability to modify the physical world to their needs.

But I regress since I may be taking things too far. Still this would allow for every opinion to be right and wrong all at once. W may be a suit, but he is also altered on a molecular level which validates a total transformation. Ya know...if there is any fisability to my argument at all. Seems to me to be a nice amount of evidence toward it...speculativly speaking.

Is fisability even a word? Fisable...Visable...no wait...

EDIT: Feasibility. Thank you Glamador. Kiss Ass shin.

 

[Glamador]

The word you were grasping for was "Feasibility"

 

[shingamyeonblack]

Don't hold his hand. Glamador. He should figure out these things by himself! :shakefist

 

[Painted_Outlaw]

Why would they make another one? :sly:

Here, I dunno if it'll make sense (because, lol movie wars pre-2011) but, it's a summary of the scene at least.

 

[NeonZ]

you said i had to come up with theories based pure on speculation to be a fan

Basically what I'm getting at is that W isn't a Dopant, if his belt worked like the sonozakis, it would just make him a half and half dopant, which he's not. The sonozakis belt just prevent against direct contact with the memory, but using the memories without the belt would still make you look the exact same you'll just end up going absolutely nuts. There for the belts and memories are separate entities. Even if they weren't that would imply that all of the "dopant forms" of the W memories would all look exactly like W but both sides would look the same. As the A to Z movie showed us thats not the case.

I... never said that...? Anyway, I don't disagree with your post in some points - it seems clear that it's the Driver shaping the transformations for W and Accel, while even the Sonozaki with Drivers still take their forms from Gaia memories. I'm not arguing otherwise.

In spite that, there's evidence, that I've already posted, including direct wording from the official site, that the drivers+memories do transform the bodies of their users too, even if the resulting transformation isn't the same as the Gaia memory by itself.

Specifically, here's another bit, the description of the Gaia Processor, that colorful part on the Double Driver, bellow the memories, that lights up when they're inserted:

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/double/ri...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=180&width=390

左右のガイアメモリから得た「地球の記憶」のデータを翔太郎の体へエネルギーに転換して送り込み、肉体を変化させる。

It says that the data of the Gaia memories is converted into energy and sent to Shotaro's body, transforming the body. The text specifically says that it's the body being transformed - by the energy converted by the W Driver.

Really, I think the official text there should make everything pretty clear. W is a complete body transformation just like a Dopant. He isn't just a mix of Dopants though, because the Driver converts and manipulates the Gaia Memory's data, resulting in a different design from what you'd get with the Gaia memory by itself.

There's something else interesting in the official description, about the Gaia Armor, the external shell covering W's body.

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/double/ri...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=180&width=390

It mentions how the carvings/slits on W's body exist to expel the excess power of the Gaia memory... Do you remember Yesterday? She did the same, manually, to avoid being corrupted by the Gaia Memory's power. So, really, W even has a part of himself designed specifically to avoid the excess power that a standard Dopant can run into.

 

[LaZerwolfX]

[HIDE]

I... never said that...? Anyway, I don't disagree with your post in some points - it seems clear that it's the Driver shaping the transformations for W and Accel, while even the Sonozaki with Drivers still take their forms from Gaia memories. I'm not arguing otherwise.

In spite that, there's evidence, that I've already posted, including direct wording from the official site, that the drivers+memories do transform the bodies of their users too, even if the resulting transformation isn't the same as the Gaia memory by itself.

Specifically, here's another bit, the description of the Gaia Processor, that colorful part on the Double Driver, bellow the memories, that lights up when they're inserted:

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/double/ri...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=180&width=390

左右のガイアメモリから得た「地球の記憶」のデータを翔太郎の体へエネルギーに転換して送り込み、肉体を変化させる。

It says that the data of the Gaia memories is converted into energy and sent to Shotaro's body, transforming the body. The text specifically says that it's the body being transformed - by the energy converted by the W Driver.

Really, I think the official text there should make everything pretty clear. W is a complete body transformation just like a Dopant. He isn't just a mix of Dopants though, because the Driver converts and manipulates the Gaia Memory's data, resulting in a different design from what you'd get with the Gaia memory by itself.

There's something else interesting in the official description, about the Gaia Armor, the external shell covering W's body.

http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/double/ri...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=180&width=390

It mentions how the carvings/slits on W's body exist to expel the excess power of the Gaia memory... Do you remember Yesterday? She did the same, manually, to avoid being corrupted by the Gaia Memory's power. So, really, W even has a part of himself designed specifically to avoid the excess power that a standard Dopant can run into.

[/HIDE]

nah man you've said it to me before, not in this thread but you have said something equivocal to me at some point. but anywho, i dunno man i don't think I'm ever going to be able to agree, not because you don't have a plenty fine argument but because W in and of himself will never read that way for me. Theres not an ounce of me that reads "i physically turned into this and no its not just a suit" when i look at W. It looks like a suit it works like a suit, it looks too artificial to be something for someone to physically change into similar to Kuuga and Agito, Its hard for me to really perceive them as full body simply because they look too inorganic.

I'm not saying that he has to look like Kamen Rider Shin, but W doesn't have a single element about him that reads in that particular way. I mean he physically mutates a gun, a scarf, and a staff? thats absurd. not to mention unlike say Kiva whom once he henshins he just like turns grey and becomes the shape of his rider suit (btw id say living suit for kiva) which always gave me the impression that it was a lil more than just a suit, W just has little bits and pieces of his suit fly onto him, that doesn't visually convey "I'm physically becoming this" literally at all, at least not to me.

 

[Hentailover]

[HIDE][/HIDE]

nah man you've said it to me before, not in this thread but you have said something equivocal to me at some point. but anywho, i dunno man i don't think I'm ever going to be able to agree, not because you don't have a plenty fine argument but because W in and of himself will never read that way for me. Theres not an ounce of me that reads "i physically turned into this and no its not just a suit" when i look at W. It looks like a suit it works like a suit, it looks too artificial to be something for someone to physically change into similar to Kuuga and Agito, Its hard for me to really perceive them as full body simply because they look too inorganic.

I'm not saying that he has to look like Kamen Rider Shin, but W doesn't have a single element about him that reads in that particular way. I mean he physically mutates a gun, a scarf, and a staff? thats absurd. not to mention unlike say Kiva whom once he henshins he just like turns grey and becomes the shape of his rider suit (btw id say living suit for kiva) which always gave me the impression that it was a lil more than just a suit, W just has little bits and pieces of his suit fly onto him, that doesn't visually convey "I'm physically becoming this" literally at all, at least not to me.

Are you... What are you? Your whole point at the beginning was disproving everyone because it was just baseless speculation, but not when you are provided with evidence, it's suddenly you who goes full head on in your own baseless interpretitation contrary to what CREATORS OF THE CHARACTER EXPLICITLY SAID.
Are you just here to disagree and argue, all logical grounds be damned...
I wouldn't know for sure, but I'm taking a mental point to never take any of your posts seriously from now on.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

^ All of this. :castlerock: