Anti-Japanese Protests Heating Up in China

[Bigdog]

No, man. ParaJaMo was thinking that North Korea would side with South Korea. ParaJaMo did not know that it already happened, but it's not that big of a deal. You basically changed it to South Korea siding with North Korea's claim to the land. The land is under the jurisdiction of the South. You can't pick that to analyze if you do not know what is happening.

China may want the land now, but it's not quite an invasion.

Everyone knows that China is the major trade partner, but we also know that the United States is on the losing end of the relationship. The thing is that everyone is on the losing end if trade comes to a complete halt between major trade countries. That's why everyone is being cautious not to upset China right now.


South Korea is not claiming the same islands as China. They actually would fight China over them as well. South Korea is claiming other islands at the same time that China is claiming islands. South Korea actually has had a strong and steady claim over many years. It's not like it's new.

North Korea is not claiming the islands.

There is no reason for Korea to let Japan take its islands. There especially is no reason after what Japan did to the country and its people. Japan keeps forcing open wounds because of its greed.

This is why I told you to stop. You do not understand the situation. You're being all generic about bits of information that you think you know.

Thanks.

But still, what if China steps over the line instead of Japan/USA and starts ****? Even if USA has less leverage , their economic situation is as uncertain as America's and for them, going against us isn't great in any form.

It all depends on election and what happens after.

You seem to also be forgetting China is also flexing its muscles in other areas of Asia such as the SE in places such as Vietnam and Thailand. They're dangerous alright.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

Well, China already let those attacks go. China pretty much sanctioned them and the United States doesn't want any involvement. The U.S. pretty much only has the police of the world thing going for it and even then, it's not doing anything.

China doesn't want to cross the line with the United States because it could start a war or get them on the naughty list like Cuba and North Korea.

China dominates Asia, so appeasement by giving the land is the one thing to do if no one wants to fight.

This one is not as much of a problem to give seeing how Japan kept taking things, but the real problems will arise when China tries to do this to another country.

 

[Bigdog]

Well, China already let those attacks go. China pretty much sanctioned them and the United States doesn't want any involvement. The U.S. pretty much only has the police of the world thing going for it and even then, it's not doing anything.

China doesn't want to cross the line with the United States because it could start a war or get them on the naughty list like Cuba and North Korea.

China dominates Asia, so appeasement by giving the land is the one thing to do if no one wants to fight.

This one is not as much of a problem to give seeing how Japan kept taking things, but the real problems will arise when China tries to do this to another country.

The funny thing is these islands have nothing useful on them whatsoever other than propaganda value. Also the Senkaku Islands are closer to Japan and Taiwan [Republic of China] than the PRC, which is a fact that many people gloss over. Taiwan doesn't give a **** about the islands , so it only leaves Japan to have it. the PRC has no business claiming Japanese or Taiwanese land now do they?

China is the aggressor here and they need to be checked. It would be hilarious if their economy fell downhill if they end up on the same list as Iran and North Korea and manufacturers left, and thus, the pop. I just want the Chinese to be knocked down some notches and humbled, because frankly it is has been a long time coming.

We can ***** all we like about how Japan "took" things decades on decades ago, or we can focus on the real problem of an oppressive China that has a cultural superiority complex aside from South Korea that sees its "former lands" such as Vietnam ,Mongolia and any others not mentioned by name.

Their misguided sense of entitlement of lands not owned by them is a threat and it needs to be dealt with harshly.

Perhaps finally, it can become politically advantageous to free Tibet from China while knocking China back to humility.

On South Korea, they should have that Dokdo island, but seriously, why don't they build more things on the land like a town and colonize it if it is theirs? Make the island/s worth fighting for for crying out loud and make it a worthy piece of real estate. If these islands are worth the fight , they might as make the best of it. As far as I have researched, it doesn't have a population worth of note [3 people] and its uncertain of the other numbers if any.

 

[shingamyeonblack]

Taiwan is not independent of mainland China. The Chinese still think of Taiwan as a part of China. Since their land still stretches that far and they already have a history with the islands, they want them back.

Being aggressive against China will make China more aggressive.

South Korea already is caring for Dokdo. "Do" signifies island. That's why I either say Jejudo or Jeju Island. It's meant to be a nature reserve. There mostly is rock there, so it's not the most habitable of places. It's what is called "cuturally significant".

There is fast industrialization in South Korea, but it's done in a way to respect more nature than in other countries. There is more efficiency in the use of land. You can see apartment complexes that pretty much look like skyscrapers. It mostly is being built upward, not outward. That's another reason why I believe that the claim to the islands should not be questioned. The islands won't be decimated to take out its natural resources.

 

[Bigdog]

Taiwan is not independent of mainland China. The Chinese still think of Taiwan as a part of China. Since their land still stretches that far and they already have a history with the islands, they want them back.

And why should they have them back when they are their own sovereign nation? This alongside other factors makes me wish China falls crashing down. And seeing how their riots destroyed their own businesses and infrastructure in photos so far ,I guess they are nearing their meltdown.

I hope we keep prodding these imbeciles and expose these genocidal oppressors for whom they really are. Barbarians.

The PRC's government needs to be taken from power by any means necessary while maintaining the illusion that China is still relevant to today's world.

Being aggressive against China will make China more aggressive.

Not if you kick it in the balls ,aka taking out its economy which is based majority-wise on manufacturing our goods and notable others. We move it to some other nation and raise higher tariffs on their goods, will they be able to strike back?

Create a nice trade barrier around them , turn the Middle East and Africa's economies towards the US and thus bar China from any sort of trade in such agreements. Support dissenting militias with American military support , support the independence of Tibet and instead of leaving these groups behind like what happened in the Middle East, continue to support the dissenter's rise to power.

If China wants to screw around , you pull the rug and break them.And seeing as China symbolizes the center of the world , what better way to re-establish American dominance if the PRC are the aggressors .


America's leaders need to cripple the tiger and make it subservient to them.

South Korea already is caring for Dokdo. "Do" signifies island. That's why I either say Jejudo or Jeju Island. It's meant to be a nature reserve. There mostly is rock there, so it's not the most habitable of places. It's what is called "cuturally significant".

So basically , its a useless rock that yields little economic value, yet they have prime minerals and prime fishing seas around it.That seems to be extremely dumb not to tap into. Develop the one half of the island and keep the other as a preserve.

Cultural value or not, economically, it is far more logical and realist to balance nature and industry than favoring some abstract force that will overcome it in the future anyways.

What's next, are you going to say that Global Warming is caused by man , that we should allow the government to control vast amounts of land to "protect" nature , and that we should follow other bollocks of "sustainabl development"?

There is fast industrialization in South Korea, but it's done in a way to respect more nature than in other countries. T

So basically , they retard their development to respect an abstract concept? That seems defeatist and rather short term thinking.

There is more efficiency in the use of land. You can see apartment complexes that pretty much look like skyscrapers. It mostly is being built upward, not outward.

That sounds rather dumb. The higher you go, unless the buildings are built with stable foundations like the ones used in Japan, it'll just tumble down.

It's not efficient environmentally if these cities create their own climate from these skyscraper-like buildings, but then again, development outwards is always bad in your point of view, even if it balances nature and industry.

That's another reason why I believe that the claim to the islands should not be questioned. The islands won't be decimated to take out its natural resources.

So basically, your reasoning is that these resources should not be somehow tapped and turn the islands into something useful?

Divide the island into two different parts, the one side is the industrial side while the other is the preserve. How does that sound to you?

 

[shingamyeonblack]

Trying to cripple China by taking away our overseas businesses would cripple the private sector. If you didn't know, the recession and unemployment is due to the lack of jobs in the private sector. You cripple the goods, you cripple the companies overseas. You cripple the companies overseas, you cripple them here. You cripple companies here, and you're on the fast track to the second great depression.

The United States can't effectively bar China's trade with other countries.


It's not dumb to not destroy nature. Why would we destroy our land to fill the sky with more smog?

South Korea is efficient in conserving nature while providing technology to help make lives easier.

Short term thinking is tearing through the land to make some money.

The foundations are strong. It's all about efficiency. Did you not know that efficiency also means that things can survive through time?

The apartment complexes are built in the cities, where most people live. It is a very efficient use of space. Any civil engineer can tell you that. Even a child could tell you that.

The islands should be torn apart. They are fine just the way that they are.

 

[kuroihikari]

There seems to be a cultural gap here.

A few things
1. For Asians, natural space is important because we have pretty high population densities. Western countries can afford to expand and expand because they have low population per square meter, Asians don't have that luxury.
2. You cannot turn an island into half a nature preserve and the other half an industrial one. Mining platforms and fishing lanes mean increased traffic, increased traffic means ruined nature preserve.
3. Putting up tariffs for goods made in China (or any nation with a lower production cost) can only be a lose-lose situation. It does mean more jobs for people back home, but it also translates into massive inflation.

 

[Black Ranger RX]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/17/us-china-japan-idUSBRE88F00H20120917

http://kotaku.com/5943762/ok-tensions-between-china-and-japan-are-getting-serious

http://imgur.com/a/Y7oIp

Has anyone been following these protests? I've been reading about it over the last few weeks and there has been a huge increase in violence over the last few days. I'm surprised that so many vehicle manufacturing plants are actually shutting down for a few days over this, that's an insane amount of lost revenue. It's pretty sad to see just how negatively this is impacting regular Chinese citizens who aren't taking part in the protests and looting.

All I can say is..

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[Bigdog]

Trying to cripple China by taking away our overseas businesses would cripple the private sector. If you didn't know, the recession and unemployment is due to the lack of jobs in the private sector. You cripple the goods, you cripple the companies overseas. You cripple the companies overseas, you cripple them here. You cripple companies here, and you're on the fast track to the second great depression.

The United States can't effectively bar China's trade with other countries.

It's not dumb to not destroy nature. Why would we destroy our land to fill the sky with more smog?

Don't environmental regs instituted by local authorities or government curb on this, or is South Korea third world? I thought that Korea was first world and curbed on its pollution, no?

It is dumb to destroy nature, however to not consider the best of both worlds for the welfare of the nation and its people economically and culturally seems to be someting

South Korea is efficient in conserving nature while providing technology to help make lives easier.

But don't these collide and get ran over if such urbanization threatens the surrounding areas? Industrialization in accordance to nature cannot be attained by your belief system as you say that making a practical compromise is somehow wrong to allow that to correlate.

Short term thinking is tearing through the land to make some money.

Short term thinking is when you underestimate nature's springing back

Your thinking is on the short term as you consider Marxist new age claptrap. How is the proposal of developing one island and leaving the other alone NOT reasonable?

The foundations are strong. It's all about efficiency. Did you not know that efficiency also means that things can survive through time?

Efficiency by what exactly? Efficiency by design, by energy or efficiency by savings?

Efficiency is an incredibly differing term as cheaper and thus, more efficient , buildings tend to not be able to last long as traditionally built ones. We can see the buildings in Japan from the 1996 earthquake where much of the newer and thus, "more efficient" buildings were made not with design, but savings. The "traditional" design and makeup of their older buildings were duplicated with modern tech and have been relatively stable since.

If it is by "energy", then if it is run by "green" technologies that are historically proven to not able to replace the energy density of fossil fuels or nuclear/coal power and thus costs are more.

But by design and cost, that is where it gets interesting as it requires actual brainstorming for the long term.

The apartment complexes are built in the cities, where most people live. It is a very efficient use of space. Any civil engineer can tell you that. Even a child could tell you that.

So you conveniently ignore the environmental hazards that big buildings cause towards the landscape and climate in general , but then cry foul at the exact balance of nature and industry you claim to be for?

You are not for balance, but you are for de-industrialization because nature is superior to man somehow rather than in a tight balance.

The islands should be torn apart. They are fine just the way that they are.

We can apply this thinking to everything in world history, even to how people lived. Just because the way things are is the way things are, it does not mean that it should be the case.

Should we forgo modern medicine and allow people to die from common sickness?

Should we forgo modern logic and cast the mentally ill into prisons and burn them with women , dissidents and homosexuals on stakes?

Should we forgo our present democratic system and rights and go back to being dictated by tyrants?

Should we forgo development , crush existing developments and head back into the caves and jungles? By your beliefs ,you contradict yourself by stating that developing is bad, yet justify the development of cities

And more importantly, should we forgo common sense?

You need a great economy to help preserve nature and if there's little of an industrial economy, what comes onto the chopping block? Nature. Less industrial nations could care less, and neither should we, about some creature here or a certain plant there or any BS regulations they spew. If there are resources, use them and take advantage of the land that x deity provided for us while being stewards of the land.

How can man function as great stewards if they are not given the means and the capital to do so in the first place?

Man has been altering its landscape for eons , and without all of this advancement, we would be still rolling in the muck of a cave with nothing to do. It's ironic you are anti-technology when you are using a computer and are debating with me on a forum.

All I can say is..

Black Ranger RX, while war does inevitably suck , its a paradox that we have also made our most integral advancements in medical technology as well as everyday life things and science.

This kind of war though, this is about as pointless as WWI and the Trojan War [if that is even accurate to the intentions].

Also , thanks for the input Kuroihikari. Your input was much appreciated :thumbs: